Author Topic: Values  (Read 1968 times)

Offline fly_by_night66

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Values
« on: March 17, 2012, 08:10:10 AM »
When testing a module, you hit INV (inventory( to see the values of the keys and quests, etc,  Is there a way to change these values to testan event?  For example force the quest 2 to be complete to test the quest event ending.

Thanks!

FBN - Jeff

Offline GoldBoxFan

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Re: Values
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2012, 11:03:49 AM »
Save games keep all the values stored so you can use them in tests. Play. Save. Test. Play. Save. Test. I had a couple of places in Grouchy Old Man where I forgot to add a couple of quest events and it would have taken too long to replay to that point. So I added a utilities event that added 2 to the quest stage so I could keep testing from where I started. I added it right in front of my last save, loaded the game normally, got the event, saved again, then deleted the event.

You could place events in front of where you are to give you the situations you require to test other events, but this can be messy if you forget to delete them later. You could set up the global to go to a module where you put in events for testing, play it normally, save it normally, then go to the place you want to test and load the save.

Offline fly_by_night66

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Re: Values
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2012, 01:11:47 PM »
Unfortunately I was afraid that was going to be the answer.  Oh well - more playtesting - as long as I remember to save!

fbn - Jeff

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: Values
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2012, 06:01:41 PM »
For the purposes of testing you can add a utlities or quest stage event nearby that sets the quest to the required value. Then delete it later.

Offline fly_by_night66

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Re: Values
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2012, 04:16:53 PM »
Having a lot of trouble with quests.  I can't get the quest complete even to fire.  Here is the chain I got...

Quest stage
 Do only once
 Always happens
 chains to quest stage

1 of 3 Quest stage
          quest complete
          in event happens text ---> text

2 of 3 Text statement
          Do only once
          Always happens
          If event happens
             special item------> you get the special item

3 of 3 Text statement
          Do only once
          Always happens
          If event happens
             combat-----------> combat

I am not sure where it is messing up because the other events are happening.

Thanks,

FBN - Jeff



Offline GoldBoxFan

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Re: Values
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2012, 11:32:02 AM »
Have you read UAHelp in your FRUA main directory? You can get a PDF version at http://ua.reonis.com/index.php?topic=1905.0. Events start on page 14 of the pdf with quest stages at page 28. I recommend you read how events work first.

First off, I wouldn't use one-time only on a quest stage as they are basically one-time only events anyway and if it is yes/no and someone says no it won't ever show up again. You also have to keep track of each part of a quest stage since they won't jump numbers without the utilities command.

You also don't have to use do only onces in the chain on accept or chain on reject.  You would have to reduce the quest stage by one or more with utilities for the quest to ever go off again. So if you aren't subtracting anywhere in the design the events aren't ever going off again.

Also, once an accept or reject is used the quest may refuse to see chains from page 1 that come after this. I had a bit of a problem with this in Grouchy Old Man. It would just quit. Whole conversations and other quest stages didn't go off. Best to continue events from within the accept or reject chains unless they are meant to go off no matter what.

Where one-time only events occur designers often do the jumping around thing to have the quests or conversations separate from what you may normally have going on in the same place. Too many quests in the same square can be confusing. And hard to get to work properly (also found this out in Grouchy Old Man). You can look at Grouchy Old Man to see various quest stages in action. There are a lot of them.

To be honest, I think we need to actually see your events in game to help with this problem as it may be another event stopping this event from going off. Please load just the module file here so we can look at it.

Offline fly_by_night66

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Re: Values
« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2012, 04:41:48 PM »
Thanks for pointing me in the general direction.  I think I will look at the docs and see if I can make sense of those as well as look at examples before I try to upload the thing for help because I am sure I will have several challanges with that.  When it comes to PC's us mainframers have some challanges - but I am getting better!

FBN66 - Jeff

Offline fly_by_night66

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Re: Values
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2012, 08:28:23 PM »
Okay, I still don't quite get it.  I have fooled around some more but never still didn't get it work or understand how to.  I guess I learn mopre by doing.  I did check out Grouchy oOld Men but really couldn't find what I was looking for.  It really isn't that hard of an event.  I start the quest, do one thing and that completes the quest.  I don't subtract from the quest stage or anything.  So I decided I would go ahead and put it out here.  It is pretty much complete except for the quests not firing when they are complete.  Load 'B' has quest 1 set to 0 and quest 2 set to 1.  Game G has both quest 1 and 2 set to 255.  The one I am trying to figure out first is in the Caves(middle left) and the other one is in the Outland Garrison in the upper left corner.  I feel bad having to ask for help but I do learn better by being shown ir instructed.

FBN - Jeff
 

Offline nologgie

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Re: Values
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2012, 01:21:20 AM »
Dungeon 3
Co-ord
8,9   Quest stage Q1 S1 - Set Quest Completed Upon Acceptance OR
       the bronze key should be given with no qualifier (Q1 completed).
8,9   Text (Accept Chain) The "Vanquished the Cleric" text shouldn't be
        here because the cleric hasn't been vanquished yet. Anything on
        the accept chain can only occur when the quest is accepted.

Dungeon 2
Co-ord
12,14   Delete Quest stage Q1 S2 - Not needed if Q1 was completed, or
          even if it wasn't. The chain control prevents Q2 S2 from firing.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 01:50:25 AM by nologgie »
Some days it just doesn't pay to gnaw through the straps.

Offline fly_by_night66

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Re: Values
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2012, 05:27:02 PM »
**  SPOILERS **








Thanks but I think you got the quest a little mixed up.  The bronze key is not p[art of the quest at all.  The quest 2 is what you get from the Garrison commander to meet with the Orcs and protect the garrison (actually getting rid of the Cleric).  the second quest, quest 1, is from the Orcs to take care or the Cleric also.  The broze key is needed to get through the door to get at the Cleric.  If you accept the Orcs Quest, the key is given to you.  If you do not accept the quest, you have to fight the Orcs in two different places to get the key.  The reason I have two different quests for the same result is because the quest from teh commander is given and the quest for the Orcs is accept/decline.  That way you can complete the quest from the Garrison Commander but not complete (by not accepting) the quest from the Orcs.  I hope that explains what I am trying to do.  This is not a very big or long or involved mod but I am seriously rethinking about creating more.  For those of you that are computer savvy - this would be a lot easier on my native COBOL skills.  But we work with what we must.

Thanks for everyone who has helped, is helping and will help complete this one project.

FBN66 - Jeff

Offline GoldBoxFan

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Re: Values
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2012, 07:05:44 PM »
Finally got around to checking this out.

Dungeon 1:
0,0: Quest 2-2 says it only goes off if Quest 2 is complete. Don't you mean if Quest 1 is complete? Also you have the starting text link to Quest 2-1 if event happens. And another event happens later the same way. These are killing the chain. If an event is chained to another event by if event happens nothing after that event will go off if that event doesn't.

The best way to use quests is to start with the quest stage (using it like text), then place rest of text, treasure and specials in the chain on accept. You also put the quest stages in reverse order. Quest 2-2 goes before Quest 2-1 and they are set to always unless one or more are impossible.

Dungeon 2:
12,14: You have Quests stage 2-2 go off if Quest 1 is completed. This should be in chain on accept, but will prevent the text in dungeon 1 from going off since that is also Quest 2-2 instead of 2-3. If that was meant to be only if Quest 1 was completed, quest 2-2 here also isn't necessary. Also, the text goes off even if quest 1-1 is started. If someone still has keys from another playthrough they can trigger the text without getting the quest.

I think I fixed your problems though I didn't play beyond the beginning. (I placed a completed quest 1 event to test it, then removed it). I changed the name of the design to HORDESB so it wouldn't overwrite yours. Copy your saves to it to test it (I deleted them because I tested over them.) I removed the other quest 2-2 after quest 1 was complete.

Offline fly_by_night66

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Re: Values
« Reply #11 on: March 21, 2012, 07:28:21 PM »
Thanks for the explanation and the assist.  i will be looking over the changes you made in the next few days.

FBN66 - Jeff

Offline nologgie

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Re: Values
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 12:50:29 AM »
I was in a hurry when I wrote the previous post (doing laundry and repacking between trips), and I'm sorry I wasn't more explicit.

Quests and variables can be very confusing at first, but if you can program in COBOL I'm sure you'll be able to fly through them once you get a firm grasp of how they work.

Quest Stages - Quest Stage events will only fire if the stage is currently one less than the stage set in the event. The highest numeric stage setting is 99, so the highest stage number a Quest Stage event will fire on is 98. Failed quests are set to stage 128, completed quests are set to stage 255. A failed or completed quest can never cause a quest stage event to fire.

Events on the Accept or Reject chains will only occur at the time the quest is accepted or rejected. If the quest is not accepted or rejected, the normal chain will normally be active.

As GoldBoxFan said, the "If Event Happens" chain control stops the chain if the event doesn't happen. Anything past that point will never be called.

Events at Dungeon 1 - 0,0

Text Statement - Do Only Once - Always Happens
   Chain Control - If Event Happens (should be Always)

Quest Stage, Q2 S1 - Auto - Do Only Once (not needed) - Always Happens
   Chain Control - Always

Text Statement - Do Only Once - Always Happens
   Chain Control - If Event Happens (should be Always)

Text Statement - Do Only Once - Always Happens
   Chain Control - Always

Give Treasure - Do Only Once - Always Happens
   Chain Control - If Event Doesn't Happen (should be Always)

Quest Stage, Q2 S2 - Auto - Do Only Once (not needed) - Quest Comp: 2
*Impossible* Will only fire if Q2 is at stage 1 and 255 at the same time.
   Chain Control - If Event Happens (should be Always)

Note: Option 1 can be educational, but Option 2 is easier. ;)

(Option 1)
It could work if Q2 was not completed in the cleric's lair and it was set to:
Quest Stage, Q2 S3 - Automatic - Always Happens
   Accept Chain: Put the Text and Give Treasure events on the accept chain, Always Happen, Always chain. It is not necessary to set the Do Only Once flag, because the chain will only be called once.
   Chain Control - Always (but there should be no events)

(Option 2)
Complete Q2 at stage 2 in the cleric's lair, delete the Quest Stage, Q2 S2 event in this chain and put the Text and Give Treasure events on the normal chain. Set them to Do Only Once, Happens If - Quest Comp: 2, Always chain.

* * * * *
Quote
The bronze key is not part of the quest at all.  The quest 2 is what you get from the Garrison commander to meet with the Orcs and protect the garrison (actually getting rid of the Cleric).  the second quest, quest 1, is from the Orcs to take care or the Cleric also.  The broze key is needed to get through the door to get at the Cleric.  If you accept the Orcs Quest, the key is given to you.  If you do not accept the quest, you have to fight the Orcs in two different places to get the key.

The bronze key is not part of the quest, but it's special item event is part of the accept chain. The key is not given, so I had to fight the orcs even after accepting Q1 S1.

Events at Dungeon 3 - 8,9

Quest Stage, Q1 S1 - Yes - Do Only Once - Always Happens
   Chain Control - Always
Note: Do Only Once flag is not needed if you set the "Fails Upon Reject" button.

*** Accept Chain ***

Text Statement - Always Happens
   Chain Control - If Event Happens (Always would work)

Special Item - Quest Comp: 1
* The bronze key is not given because Q1 is not completed. (Q1 is at stage 1, not 255.)
   Chain Control - If Event Happens (Always would work)
* Will not chain because the Special Item event doesn't happen.

Text Statement - Always Happens
   Chain Control - Always
* This is the "Cleric Vanquished" text, and it does not belong in the accept chain because the cleric has not been defeated at this point. It would work with a Quest Stage, Q1 S3 (Option 1) or text event (Option 2) on the normal chain as shown below.

*** Reject Chain ***

Text Statement - Always Happens
   Chain Control - If Event Happens (Always would work)

Combat event - Do Only Once (not needed) - Always Happens
   Chain Control - Always

*** Normal Chain *** (Added)

(Option 1)
Quest Stage, Q1 S3 - Impossible - Do Only Once - Always Happens
   Chain Control - Always

* This is kind of an 'optional' quest event. If the player visits the orcs after the cleric is defeated the "Cleric Vanquished" text can be displayed in either the quest stage event, or in a test statement attached to the reject chain. The Do Only Once flag is set to limit it to one occurrence. Turn it off if you want it to recur. The quest stage will not be advanced, so it can not mess up the end game Quest Stage, Q1 S3 at dungeon 1 - 0,0. (As described in Option 1 above.)

(Option 2)
Text Statement - Do Only Once - Quest Comp: 2
   Chain Control - Always
This would display the "Cleric Vanquished" text once if the player visits the orcs after the cleric is defeated.

* * * * *

Dungeon 2

In step event #1 (zone 2) the first event (Do only Once) is set to chain If Event Happens, so the last text event (called by an If Event Doesn't Happen chain control) will never happen. The chain will never run again after the first event fires.

Events at 12,14

I confused myself about this part. I set Q1 to Complete at stage 1 so the bronze key would be given, so when I got to this point quest stage Q1 S2 wouldn't fire, and that prevented quest stage Q2 S2 from firing. These events will work as-is unless you want to use Option 2, in which case you'd turn off the "Completed on Acceptance" button on Q2 S2.

It's usually good practice to set quest stage events to Always Happens, and not set their Do Only Once flag unless you're doing something unusual with them. I've also seen many bugs induced by designers using If Event Happens / Doesn't Happen chain controls when it wasn't necessary. Keeping things as simple as possible usually makes them work better. That's free advice from me, and probably worth about what it cost. :)

Regards,
Tom
Some days it just doesn't pay to gnaw through the straps.

Offline fly_by_night66

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Re: Values
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2012, 05:45:03 AM »
nologgie,

My wife loves to put to work on Sundays as well as most of the other days so I was only able to try the first solution you had and it did work.  I am studying it though and think I am beginning to grasp the way it thinks.  Thanks again for all your help and the help of the boards.

FBN66 - Jeff