Author Topic: Pool of Radiance Hub  (Read 32503 times)

Offline Cero Cero

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #60 on: February 09, 2014, 10:49:59 AM »
It'd be nice to know what the actual item numbers of all those items are. I see:

Item_value=113. If Item value is less than 128, load item block
If item value is not 255 load itemvalue=128.

I suspect the first 128 items are the magic ones, because I don't ever remember getting rotting leather saddles or chains of bone. ;)

There's always the old tricks we used to play when actually trying to beat the game for the first time, like repetitive reloading. I think you could use DosBox's save states to repetitively reload just before the fight--of course, you'd need to create a high-level party so you don't have problems fighting the trolls again and again.

If you want to study random item generation, I suggest the Sorcerer's Island treasure rooms--there are 3 treasure rooms each with 3 random items. Save after beating Yarash.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2014, 12:14:16 PM by Null Null »

Offline jhirvonen

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #61 on: February 09, 2014, 01:29:35 PM »
There are several PoR versions on various abandoware sites. Some even have different item record sizes (63 vs 64 bytes). The data files seem to be the same, the main executable and game.ovr are different sized. I tried the troll-fight with one version and after a few tries got the Ointment-item.

One would think that by searching all the decoded data files and the executable as well you'd find some bytes of the cloak but didn't find anything.

I added item properties editor to Gold Box Companion. Can be used in PoR, CotAB and SotSB. It's very experimental as I still don't know for sure how the inventory is organized in memory but now you can adjust the offset of the first item and change the item record size. If you locate the items you can toy around with item properties. Seemed to work as I created a Long Sword of Tyr +2 which had the added properties of the Cloak of Elvenkind.

Screenshot:
http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/graphics/screen9.jpg

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/jhirvonen/gbc/

Offline Cero Cero

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #62 on: February 10, 2014, 08:25:26 PM »
Cool! I think in the next mod the cloak of elvenkind should be behind 16 random magic user scrolls. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EORB7UeX2sM

Offline hans

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #63 on: February 10, 2014, 09:29:58 PM »
Cool! I think in the next mod the cloak of elvenkind should be behind 16 random magic user scrolls. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EORB7UeX2sM
 

Nice song.   :)

Offline marainein

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #64 on: February 11, 2014, 08:55:22 PM »
So... is PoR creating random treasure procedurally?

At first I didn't think so, but...
I'm pretty sure there is a create random treasure function in the Curse code, so it would not surprise me for pool to have the same/similar code.

I looked, and indeed there is, and it's the same function (if not necessarily the same code) that's being called after this troll fight by the ecl. You may find it here: http://code.google.com/p/coab/source/browse/trunk/engine/ovr022.cs#443

It generates random magical weapons(with +1 or +2 bonuses), armor, scrolls and miscellaneous items. It also includes a lookup table to give special effects to certain items.

BTW, is there anything like this in FRUA?

It'd be nice to know what the actual item numbers of all those items are. I see:

Item_value=113. If Item value is less than 128, load item block
If item value is not 255 load itemvalue=128.

I suspect the first 128 items are the magic ones, because I don't ever remember getting rotting leather saddles or chains of bone. ;)
Reading the code, it looks like if the item_val is above 128, it will generate the item_val-128 random items (so 3 items for the troll encounter, which has an item_val if 131). If the number is below 128, it's just a block id in the current ITEMn.DAX file.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2014, 09:09:36 PM by marainein »

Offline Cero Cero

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2014, 12:23:09 PM »
Ah. So it gives you item #x if x <128, and x-128 random items if x>128.

Wow. Clever. This is how they saved memory in the old days, eh?

Offline Simeon Pilgrim

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2014, 03:34:40 PM »
and seems it was a signed byte, its N >0 load #N  OR N < 0 load -N items.

Because those are the same logic depending if you respect sign or not.

Offline jhirvonen

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2014, 05:03:43 PM »
I found one item table in START.EXE.

Cloak of Elvenkind's item record is:

43 E5 A7 58 01 01 01 00 00 19 00 00 70 17 00 48 86


And if you search the exe with:

E5 00 A7 00 58 00 19 00 70 17 00 00 48 00 86


You'll find this table:

BB 00 A7 00 40 00 01 00 20 03 03 00 03 00 00 00
EF 00 A7 00 40 00 01 00 4C 04 01 00 52 00 00 00
B9 00 A7 00 40 00 01 00 90 01 01 00 55 00 00 00
AD 00 A7 00 40 00 01 00 C2 01 01 00 50 00 00 00
F0 00 A7 00 41 00 01 00 34 08 38 00 38 00 00 00
EE 00 A7 00 42 00 01 00 88 13 00 00 1B 00 80 00
9D 00 A7 00 45 00 01 00 70 17 14 00 33 00 00 00
CE 00 A7 00 45 00 01 00 F8 2A 1E 00 58 00 00 00
E1 00 A7 00 45 00 01 00 88 13 14 00 54 00 00 00
E2 00 A7 00 64 00 0A 00 98 3A 00 00 26 00 83 00
00 00 6F 00 B6 00 01 00 10 27 05 00 51 00 00 00
E4 00 A7 00 77 00 01 00 80 3E 14 00 57 00 00 00
AA 00 A7 00 58 00 19 00 5C 44 00 00 59 00 85 00
9D 00 A7 00 15 00 14 00 B8 0B 01 00 53 00 00 00
F2 00 A7 00 45 00 01 00 88 13 14 00 2F 00 00 00
CD 00 A7 00 42 00 01 00 88 13 00 00 3D 00 81 00
E3 00 A7 00 42 00 01 00 4C 1D 00 00 38 00 8B 00
BA 00 A7 00 49 00 96 00 A8 61 00 00 00 00 00 00
E5 00 A7 00 58 00 19 00 70 17 00 00 48 00 86 00

Which leads to:

Potion of Extra
Potion of Giant Strength
Potion of Healing
Potion of Speed
Scroll of Restoring Level(s)
Ring of Feather Falling
Wand of Lightning
Wand of Magic Missiles
Wand of Paralyzation
Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Keoghtum's Ointment
Necklace of Missiles
Cloak of Displacement
Javelin of Lightning
Wand of Fireballs
Ring of Fire Resistance
Ring of Invisibility
Bag of Holding
Cloak of Elvenkind

So there really is a Bag of Holding in Pool of Radiance!

In the exe there are interesting item part names like:

Gaseous Form
Slipperiness
Flying
Treasure Finding
Missile Attractor
Of Maglubiyet
Secr Door & Trap Det
Gd Dragon Control

which probably never made it to the game.

Offline elodman

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #68 on: May 13, 2014, 02:33:47 PM »
This post has a Pool of Radiance save file with the item Cloak of Elvenkind in it:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1061231231&postcount=98

yes, that is my post with saves of odd items.
(Bag of holding was there once, too, but didn't save it.)

Anyone found out how useful this Cloak is, or
its merits compared to eg. a Ring of prot +3 or 2-handed sword +3?


----
No, save-state created / reloaded before the troll fight doesn't / didn't work  in old rope guild.
(wrote about it at Crpgaddict's POR review)
---

Long live GBC, thanx for it.   :)
- That was the time, the Golden Age, when C-64 and Amiga ruled -

Offline Cero Cero

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #69 on: June 05, 2014, 12:25:01 PM »
Further proof that I need a new hobby (or to produce those mods I owe y'all):

I saved a game after killing Yarash (the only place in the game you can get 9 random items in rapid succession) and ran to Phlan, then IDd all my items 29 times.

This should produce a total of 261 items. However, I only have 254. Occasionally (2.7% of the time), the game produced an empty item slot with no name instead of an item. You were able to pick this up and have it occupy an item slot, though it gave me no money if I tried to sell it.

I produced 107 +1 items, 30 +2 items, and 6 +3 items. I never got a +4 item.

I'm convinced that for weapons at least, it generates the weapon and then determines a plus; I got a guisarme-voulge +3, which strikes me as the most 1st edition weapon imaginable.

The game definitely likes to make weapons and scrolls. I got 20 armor and shields, 14 rings, 72 mage scrolls, 18 clerical scrolls, 6 bracers, 3 potions, 1 necklace of missiles, 1 wand of paralyzation, and, indeed, 1 cloaking robe of elvenkind (which sits in my wardrobe behind the scrolls of magic spells, as discussed earlier.)

The remaining 118 items were weapons. Some weapons are clearly preferred. I got 8 sets of 10 arrows, 9 bastard swords, 14 broad swords, 18 long swords, 7 short swords, and 8 two-handed swords. 56 were swords, so you're about as likely to get a sword as you are another weapon. Nonetheless, the bizarre armory of the 1st ed player's handbook was represented, with magic awl pikes, bec de corbins, bardiches, ranseurs, military forks and pics, lucern hammers, bo and jo sticks, and of course fauchard-forks, glaive-guisarmes, guisarme-voulges, and bill-guisarmes turning up.

The most common protective items were shields (5), plate mail (4), and splint mail (4).

Despite getting a fair number of rings, only rings of protection, fire resistance, and invisibility were represented. Of course, the others may have been too rare to turn up.

Offline Simeon Pilgrim

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #70 on: June 05, 2014, 05:08:27 PM »
Further proof that I need a new hobby (or to produce those mods I owe y'all):

I saved a game after killing Yarash (the only place in the game you can get 9 random items in rapid succession) and ran to Phlan, then IDd all my items 29 times.

This should produce a total of 261 items. However, I only have 254. Occasionally (2.7% of the time), the game produced an empty item slot with no name instead of an item. You were able to pick this up and have it occupy an item slot, though it gave me no money if I tried to sell it.

I produced 107 +1 items, 30 +2 items, and 6 +3 items. I never got a +4 item.

I'm convinced that for weapons at least, it generates the weapon and then determines a plus; I got a guisarme-voulge +3, which strikes me as the most 1st edition weapon imaginable.

The game definitely likes to make weapons and scrolls. I got 20 armor and shields, 14 rings, 72 mage scrolls, 18 clerical scrolls, 6 bracers, 3 potions, 1 necklace of missiles, 1 wand of paralyzation, and, indeed, 1 cloaking robe of elvenkind (which sits in my wardrobe behind the scrolls of magic spells, as discussed earlier.)

The remaining 118 items were weapons. Some weapons are clearly preferred. I got 8 sets of 10 arrows, 9 bastard swords, 14 broad swords, 18 long swords, 7 short swords, and 8 two-handed swords. 56 were swords, so you're about as likely to get a sword as you are another weapon. Nonetheless, the bizarre armory of the 1st ed player's handbook was represented, with magic awl pikes, bec de corbins, bardiches, ranseurs, military forks and pics, lucern hammers, bo and jo sticks, and of course fauchard-forks, glaive-guisarmes, guisarme-voulges, and bill-guisarmes turning up.

The most common protective items were shields (5), plate mail (4), and splint mail (4).

Despite getting a fair number of rings, only rings of protection, fire resistance, and invisibility were represented. Of course, the others may have been too rare to turn up.

Most of your insight is correct. The item type is randomly decided, then the item is type is created.

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #71 on: June 05, 2014, 08:16:36 PM »
The Experimental Probability for each Treasure Type is:
Potions: 3/254 = 1.18%
Scrolls: 90/254 = 35.4%
Rings: 14/254 = 5.51%
Rods, Staves, and Wands: 1/254 = 0.39 %
Miscellaneous Magic: 8/254 = 3.15%
Armor & Shields: 20/254 = 7.87%
Swords: 56/254 = 22.05%
Miscellaneous Weapons: 62/254 = 24.41%

Compare this to the Random Treasure Table in the DMG:
Potions: 20%
Scrolls: 15%
Rings: 5%
Rods, Staves, and Wands: 5%
Miscellaneous Magic: 15%
Armor & Shields: 15%
Swords: 11%
Miscellaneous Weapons: 14%

Potions and Scrolls together are about 35%.
Rings are about 5%.
RSW and Miscellaneous Magic are much rarer in POR.
Armor and Shields are about half as likely in POR.
Swords and Weapons are about twice as likely in POR.
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Offline Cero Cero

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #72 on: June 06, 2014, 02:02:16 PM »
A lot of the miscellaneous items are nightmares to code--I'd hate to cram the code for a Staff of Wizardry into 384K with all the other crap.

Why less armor? Maybe the testing team was sick of getting useless suits of ring mail +1 ? I still remember the ring mail +4 from Pools of Darkness--sounds neat until you realize it's no more protective than nonmagical plate mail.

Offline Simeon Pilgrim

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #73 on: June 08, 2014, 04:50:43 PM »
Why less armor? Maybe the testing team was sick of getting useless suits of ring mail +1 ? I still remember the ring mail +4 from Pools of Darkness--sounds neat until you realize it's no more protective than nonmagical plate mail.

But it's lighter.

Offline Cero Cero

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Re: Pool of Radiance Hub
« Reply #74 on: June 10, 2014, 03:10:45 PM »
Good point. ;)

Question for you or any of the hackers--they're talking over on another thread about game balance, and if anyone's in need of a project... has anyone looked at the combat balancing code from Pool of Radiance (this was the only Gold Box game to do this)? It might be helpful to the DC writers...