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Dungeon Craft => Dungeon Craft - Module Previews => Topic started by: Dinonykos on June 29, 2016, 04:04:10 AM

Title: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on June 29, 2016, 04:04:10 AM
Now that "The Case of the Stolen Masterpiece" is close to be completed, I think about my next small DC project "Hide & Seek". This design shall contain numerous mini games and activities:
a) Games that work virtually the same way as the original games:

b) Games that are too complex (too many varieties possible) to be originary emulated in DC with appropriate effort, but will be incorporated in another way:

c) Games/activities that cannot be emulated, but only symbolically incorporated:
I have some more ideas, but will keep some surprises.
Paul has already suggested to do a "Master Mind"-like game, I think this is also a good idea.

This design will not be very interactive outside the mini games, but I hope it will be interesting anyway. I am not completely sure about the background story - it depends a little bit on the reception of the other designs I completed this year.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on June 29, 2016, 01:37:53 PM
That is a pretty impressive list. :D

I assume by "Rock - Stone - Scissors" you mean "Rock - Paper - Scissors"?

I have thought of three gambling games for use at some point (other than dicing which you are taking a stab at). Three-card Mondte, Slot Machine and Highball (or Lowball). These are pretty straight-forward and have few enough moving parts that I think they can be done without driving the designer completely crazy.

I look forward to this one as much as a designer as a player. I think that you are going to show all of us some things that DC can do that no one else has thought of.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on June 30, 2016, 05:31:06 AM
I assume by "Rock - Stone - Scissors" you mean "Rock - Paper - Scissors"?
Yes, I think sometimes the "Stone" slips into my mind because we call it "Schere - Stein - Papier" in Germany.

I look forward to this one as much as a designer as a player. I think that you are going to show all of us some things that DC can do that no one else has thought of.
Though, as always, I may not use the most effective ways to accomplish things... :)

Concerning "effective ways", I have seen that in DC 2.x, you can change walls via GPDL script (I think this did not work in 0.914). That's really great, since I guess this would also allow to change numerous walls within the same logic block event. If I had used that option in Snow Tigress, I could have condensed ca. 20 000 events into 1000... :D
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on June 30, 2016, 01:25:30 PM
If your way is teh only way, it is the most effective way. :D :D :D

You can change wall/overlay/door, backdrops and blockage via sctipts (whether in Logic Block events or not).  I think this may make the current wall and backdrop limits per level something that needs to be upped again.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on July 11, 2016, 10:20:29 AM
I also recognized, though, that the way of changing walls via the logic block event without using scripts seems not to work properly when importing old designs or levels from old designs into DC 2.x. I will check that again sooner or later.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on July 11, 2016, 01:07:45 PM
I also recognized, though, that the way of changing walls via the logic block event without using scripts seems not to work properly when importing old designs or levels from old designs into DC 2.x. I will check that again sooner or later.

You are right - the old  way of changing walls does not work - Paul took it out of being a special Logic Block funtion and made general functions which allow us to do waaaaaay more. :D Not that having more functionality means any less owrk on your part when updating to the new engine/editor. Sorry about that.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on July 11, 2016, 03:04:53 PM
Well, it probably means that I won't transfer "Snow Tigress" to DC 2.0 since it uses the old option very often. But I don't think that is much of a problem. I like the new way of handling it very much!
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on July 11, 2016, 03:26:35 PM
Again, sorry about that. Perhaps you could see if exporting the levels to a text file provides something you can work with?
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on July 11, 2016, 04:21:50 PM
Compatibility with old designs has alway been
one of my goals.

We should be able to automate the update
if anyone is really anxious to get it done.  I would
need help finding test data and with testing the
result.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on July 11, 2016, 07:02:03 PM
Perhaps DInonykos will be willing to do this...
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on July 12, 2016, 03:04:51 AM
I assume the way to go would be a mini-mod made with 0.914 using the "old change wall way" and posting it/sending it to Paul with a detailled description of the problem?
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on July 12, 2016, 10:29:54 AM
Yes...quite right.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on July 19, 2016, 02:55:31 AM
I will be "in the field" for some time, so I will probably not work much with my computer during the coming weeks. But I am doing drawings for this design.

I hope I get the mini-mod done during the weekend.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 03, 2016, 04:16:39 AM
The intro comic to this design will be a four page dream sequence, my idea is that the sequence tells the background story in fragments and that the player can learn more about the story while playing the design. The first page is depicted below. After I have completed the comic, I will continue with the design.

I have also not forgotten about the "wall changing compability problem" we discussed above and also do the related minimods soon.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 06, 2016, 04:20:43 AM
I probably asked this already, but is there a function to automatically equip a found item? Or create NPCs which already equipped items? This might be also interesting for Hero Craft...
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 06, 2016, 01:43:36 PM
I like the teaser comic page. ;D When you make the mini-mods, I will precess them and send them on to Paul.

There is no auto-equip for items that PCs pick up. There is a script that can be added to NPCs so that they come into play with items equipped. I cannot remember off the top of my head what that script is, but will look into it. However, all combatants under computer control will auto-equip at the start of combat.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 06, 2016, 03:11:32 PM
Okay, I made a mini mod with 0.914. Just load savegame a and walk to the fireplace, which then becomes extinguished. This is done via the logic block as shown in the screenshot from the editor. This function is no longer supported in DC 2.x.

EDIT: Sorry, I just realize that I should perhaps put the minimod into another thread... I hope it is still okay this way...
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 06, 2016, 04:36:24 PM
This is your thread. If you want to stick a mini-mod in it for a related issue, that seems perfectly plausible to me.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 06, 2016, 06:36:00 PM
Oh, boy!

The first thing I attempted was to EXPORT the very tiny
level in your mini-mod.  Total editor failure.  It knows not
how to IMPORT or EXPORT a Logic-Block.  So that is where
I have to begin.

It will be a while but I have confidence that we can solve
your $SET Level ASL ($Wall,1,1,E=2) problem.  Patience.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 06, 2016, 07:36:55 PM
This is good, since being able to import/export Logic Blocks is something we want to do. :) Let me know if you need anything.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 07, 2016, 03:20:40 AM
This is absolutely not urgent, I even had already accepted that it would not work. But your statement...
Compatibility with old designs has alway been one of my goals.
gave me new hope... :)

The other approach using GPDL is much more effective since you can do much more than 2 walls with only one event. And it is particularly great that we now can change walls on any level from any other level.  :hello2: I am really enthusiastic about this! If this had been implemented before I started with "Snow Tigress", I would probably have been able to do it with a few hundred events instead of thousands... :D

But of course, it would still be great if the old logic blocks would work in DC 2.x, because my old designs use this approach quite often, and maybe it would be interesting to import them in 2.x some time.

Thanks for dealing with this, Paul!



This is your thread. If you want to stick a mini-mod in it for a related issue, that seems perfectly plausible to me.
:) Well,  quite often I spend a lot of time searching for old posts with interesting information and do not find them because we at some point went off-topic. So it is good to keep some system. For example, I would expect this in the DC testing area of the forum.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 07, 2016, 11:59:32 AM
You make a valid point. I spend a significant amount of time int his forum using the search function. :)

As far as which subforum, I think these issues should go into Troubleshooting or Development depending upon the issue. I view Testing as a place where I or anyone really, presents something and asks for one or more others to test it and report back.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 07, 2016, 01:21:26 PM
To come back to the thread: Below you can see the progress of page two. In some cases, I use the DC 3d-view to generate the backgrounds. Unfortunately, I drew a character in the last panel which should not have occurred, so I have to redraw that one. Once I have done that, I will add the texts.
Pages 3 and 4 are already complete. Now, I am working on the graphics of some of the mini games...
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 07, 2016, 02:48:55 PM
Very nice. ;D I love seeing the workflow images. I didn't realize that you were using the 3d viewport to generate the backgrounds for your panels. Has this always been the case? That makes them even more impressive.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 07, 2016, 03:46:59 PM
No, I use the 3D backdrops in perhaps 1/3 of the panels. For special perspectives (see upper right panel above) or 45° angles, I draw the backgrounds by hand.

Actually, I have just started working on a comic that will tell the origin of the martens (the plot will thus take place before all the designs I made so far, even before "Rise of the Insectoids"). If I can really finish that project, I will probably add it to "Helmet Menace" as bonus... :)
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 07, 2016, 05:36:05 PM
That sounds cool. Bonus material is always enjoyed. :) I thought you were drawing all of your backgrounds. I guess in a sense, you still are. ;)

Something I have done, for projects never released, is to use the same wall textures as textures in my 3D software, so I can render with them. I have built a set-up on a grid system so that I can duplicate any DC dungeon layout. I will likely use this technique as backdrops in a mini-comic to go with my superhero design. :D
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 07, 2016, 06:55:08 PM
Export/Import of Logic Block seems in order.  Now on
to the problem of Setting Walls.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 07, 2016, 10:21:49 PM
When using Engine version 2.52, the fire goes out.

http://dianneandpaul.net/UAF/DungeonCraft_252.7z

But it ain't right.  Your instruction was "$Wall,1,1,E=2".
Wall slot 2 is a block wall, not a fireplace.  The engine
forgot to convert from wall ordinal to wall index.  I dare
not change this because it appears you have taken advantage
of this bug.  Silently.  Too bad.  Unless I misunderstand your
intent.  Do you agree?

You can go ahead and use the Logic Block function for this
purpose if it pleases you to do so.  My 'fix' is relatively
efficient.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 08, 2016, 12:04:54 AM
Not sure if I completely understand, Paul. Until version 0.914, walls were numbered 0, 1, 2... so I had to use 2 in the example above.

I assume that now walls are numbered 1, 2, 3..., similarly to levels. Is that the problem? Perhaps this is what you mean with ordinal vs. index? I had never considered this to be a bug until now.

In any case, thanks for your efforts, and as written above, I would not be a shock to me if it was not possible.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 08, 2016, 10:00:00 AM
Quote
Until version 0.914, walls were numbered 0, 1, 2

Are you sure?  I certainly cannot remember anything that
long ago.  But certainly the tabs on the wall slot selection
dialog now say "1-16", "17-32", etc.  Did they used to
say "0-15" prior to 0.914?  And the primary window labels
the available walls as "1" through "16".

Did the SET_LEVEL_ASL "$Wall,1,1,E=2" business work
in versions prior to 0.914?

The new GPDL function $SetWall appears to treat the walls
as 0 through 15.  That is not good, either.

I don't know exactly how to proceed.  Are these numbers used
anywhere else?  If not, perhaps I can simply change the
labels on the wall selection tabs and main window to say "0-15".

Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 08, 2016, 11:53:36 AM
I assume that the tabs always said 1-16, also in pre 0.914-versions, but that at the same time the "internal" numbering was 0-15 and so on. I am quite sure that in the helping file which came with 0.914, it was explained this way (that walls start with 0). Unfortunately, I cannot check this on this computer.

I suggest to ask Manikus for his opinion here... :) I would be fine if you just renamed the tabs, if this is the easiest way. And, in opposite to the level numbers, I even think that there is some logic in numbering the walls starting with 0, because "wall 0" is reserved for the transparent, unblocked "non-wall". So, the "real" walls would indeed start with 1 then.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 08, 2016, 01:14:03 PM
For as long as there have been tabs in the wall editor, they have started with "1". I can alos confirm that in .914 the internal numbering began with "0".  I think in .914 the internal number for everything started with "0". The first big change was the internal number for levels starting at "1" Then lots othings got renumbered.

Do the internal wall numbers not begin with "0"? My documentation says that they do. I think I am not understanding the issue. Slot 3, for example, in .914 and 2.52 should be the same thing.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 08, 2016, 01:28:37 PM
I agree that things did not change pre/post 0.914.

There is no technical problem.  It is a user interface
problem.  The user sees wall number one in the editor
and is expected to write "0" in the script.  Many of us
are comfortable converting from index <-> ordinal.
But I thought it would be better to use one or the
other consistently.  If possible to do it easily.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 08, 2016, 01:32:09 PM
I agree, as written above - it confused me in the beginning, and sometimes it still does... :D The question is if the tabs should be changed to 0-15, 16-31 etc. instead of 1-16, 17-32? I personally would appreciate it.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 08, 2016, 01:48:36 PM
If we are talking about changing the internal numbers to start with 1 because we already did that with some, we should discuss this further, because several things are going to need to be fixed. But, if we're just discussing changing the the starting number for all of the various tabs, then I say go with the majority opinioin on this. I have no opinion on this second issue - I always think of them as tab 1, tab 2, etc and don't really pay attention to the number value listed on them other than to interpret it as tab 1 or tab 2, etc.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 08, 2016, 04:41:05 PM
Quote
changing the internal numbers to start with 1

The problem with that is that existing programs use the
numbers starting at zero.  I think it would be better to
change the displayed numbers to begin at zero to agree
with existing programs.  I don't know of any place these
numbers are used except to set walls/blockage.

Oh, dear.....What numbers are written to export files?
I'll have to check this unless someone knows.  The numbers
in the export files should agree with the numbers displayed
by the editor!
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 08, 2016, 05:12:48 PM
If internal numbers and export numbers agree (fingers crossed), then the solution is to change the numbers displayed on the tabs.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 08, 2016, 05:13:14 PM
Bad news....the export numbers the walls 1-16.

Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 08, 2016, 05:34:31 PM
That's not good. When it imports, I assume the "1" in the export goes into walls slot 1 instead of 0.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 08, 2016, 06:24:01 PM
I believe that the export/import work OK.  The Import is
consistent with the export.  When I export the design and
import it again, nothing changes that I can see.  Also, I can
export level 1 and then import it as level 2 and I see two
identical levels.

It would seem that the numbering system 1 - 16 is pretty
well established.  I am going to remove engine version 2.52
from my website because it uses 0-15 for the two functions
that set wall numbers.  Until we decide what is going to happen.

1)
We could simply decide to document this feature.  Scripts and
Logic Block manipulations must use the index of the wall slot (0)
rather than the ordinal (1).

2)
We could change the engine to use the ordinal (1) for the two
functions that manipulate walls.  We would do our best to provide
a way for Dinonykos to convert his design (and anyone else who comes
along with the same problem).

3)
We could change the engine to allow the designer to specify
whether he would prefer to use the index or ordinal.  Ordinal
would be default.  This might be specified by defining a
Global Attribute named "Use Wall Index". (any better names?) 
Menu:   Global/Global Settings/Global Attributes
This would apply to Level ASLs and to the GPDL function $SetWall.
This would be relatively simple for me to do under the
circumstances that I have to do something.

I think I prefer 3).  Discussion?

Where are these documented?  Can they be updated?
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 08, 2016, 06:43:32 PM
1 or 3, whichever you prefer.

Documentation is here, about 3/4 of the way down the page.
http://manikus.reonis.com/Help/SASpecialAbilitiesScripts.html
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 08, 2016, 11:57:37 PM
Yes, 1 or 3. But maybe it would be good to make a poll?
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 09, 2016, 12:26:32 PM
Yes, 1 or 3. But maybe it would be good to make a poll?

No poll. Paul and I have a say, and you (Dinonykkos) have a say because you have used this feature. But if noone else has used this feature this really won't affect them. I do want to hear from anyone who has already used this in an old design.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 09, 2016, 12:38:28 PM
Great, then I can return to topic and show how the 2nd comic page turned out in the end... :D
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 09, 2016, 12:44:33 PM
The 2nd page looks great. I know that you do the mini comics for your designs. Have you thought about doing a comic book series? Independent of the games, of course.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 09, 2016, 01:23:01 PM
I used to draw comics for fun at school, and the characters from the games (Martens, Helmettigers etc.) are based on these attempts. Actually, I see some of my DC designs as interactive comics in some way, e.g. "Rise of the Insectoids" and "The Fiend's ritual".

As mentioned above, I have just begun to (re-)do the comic telling the origin of the martens. I thought about incorporating the origin story in a DC design, but that would probably not work well. With the practice I have from the DC designs, I should now finally be able to draw a comic I am happy with.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 09, 2016, 01:44:01 PM
I certainly enjoy reading your comics and would read a full length one as well. ;D

A few years ago (which probably means five to ten years ago), who was using DC to create interactive lessons for her child(ren). No combats, lots of text. I have thought long and hard about using DC to do a "Choose Your Own Adventure" kind of thing It would be Text Statement, Guided Tour and Question List events, each with images.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 09, 2016, 01:54:41 PM
I did not get this completely... is there something missing in the first sentence?  ???
Who did use DC for lessons?
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 09, 2016, 02:22:50 PM
I did not get this completely... is there something missing in the first sentence?  ???
Who did use DC for lessons?

I should have made those different paragraphs. :) There was a member of our community who has not been active lately, who told me this. I don't recall what kind of lessons or how may, but have always tried to keep it in my brain that there are more uses for DC than just creating FRUA-style games to play.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 09, 2016, 02:53:58 PM
I probably asked this already, but is there a function to automatically equip a found item? Or create NPCs which already equipped items? This might be also interesting for Hero Craft...

It turns out that we can't do this in DC right now. I was misremembering (what we can do is have NPCs join the party with spells already memorized).
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 09, 2016, 03:30:39 PM
I thought so, but thanks to another discussion we had earlier I think I can move around that problem. :)

But generally, I think it would be good if we could do this, e.g. for certain types of superheroes.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 09, 2016, 03:57:19 PM
We do have functions to see if something is readied and to ready something.

$GET_CHAR_Ready(actor, bodyLocation, itemNumber)
   Gets the name of the item readied at the given body location. Because there may be several items readied at a particular body location, you must specify which – by providing an 'itemNumber'. '0' is the first item at that location, '1' is the second, etc.
$SET_CHAR_Ready(actor, bodyPosition, itemName)
   Readies the named item at the given bodyPosition. 'itemName' may be blank to unready any item at that position.

I suppose when you give teh item to the party member you could do something then...
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 09, 2016, 04:10:27 PM
:o Wow! This sounds great! Thank you! I would have taken a much more complicated way by making the items change the characters stats and then check the stats...

I see I still do not ask the right questions sometimes...  ;)
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 09, 2016, 04:26:32 PM
If you are trying to vie PCs or NPCs "super powers", there are other ways you can do it, too. But, if you specifically want the "Super Powers" to be associated with an item, that is givvven to them "already on", this is the best way (maybe the only way) to go about it.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 15, 2016, 01:34:23 PM
I have not yet tested the $GET_CHAR_Ready(actor, bodyLocation, itemNumber) function, but I have a question - how do I specify the actor? Is it just 0, 1, 2 and so on for the party members, or something more complicated?

I am making good progress with the art for the mini games, I think I am almost ready... :)
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 15, 2016, 02:08:42 PM
First, let me say this art both looks great and is highly intriguing. I can't wait to see how you're going to implement these games, not to mention playing them. :D

The numbers are index numbers, but not actors. Index numbers can only be used where the the function calls for a string. An actor will be either $CharacterContext(), $CombatantContext(), or $Myself() (amongstseveral others). I believe in this case, it will be $CharacterContext(). The way this generally works is that the engine knows who to apply it to because you are looking in that character's inventory. :) If I recall correctly, you are wanting an item that is given to a PC to immediately ready - in which case you will still use $CharacterContext(), and the engine knows who that is because it is giving the item to the selected (highlighted in the list) PC.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 15, 2016, 06:06:38 PM
Quote
I have not yet tested the $GET_CHAR_Ready

The 'actor' (first parameter of the function) is an internal
representation of one of the characters.  It is not a number.  It is
not a string.  It can only be generated by some very particular
GPDL functions and cannot be saved in a variable.

In order to tell you what function you should use to generate
an 'actor', I need to know where you are going to use it.
If you use it in a 'hook' then the description of the hook will
tell you what contexts are available for that hook.  'Character Context'
is almost always available if the hook is triggered by a
Special Ability attached to a character.  In this case, manikus is
correct that '$CharacterContext()' will fetch the proper actor.

But there seems to be a lot of confusion about this simple
idea of 'contexts'.  Manikus has shown some confusion occasionally.
'Context' consists of those things available for the script to
examine.  'Character Context' is not always one of those things.
'Character Context'  is not available, for example, in scripts
that run as a result of event triggers.  But there are methods
of generating a proper 'actor' from a character index.

I'll be happy to continue this discussion.  We might start by
your telling me where you expect to use the function
$Get_CHAR_Ready();
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 16, 2016, 12:05:25 AM
I want to check at a certain time if one of the characters has equipped something.

E.g.: Let's say the player wants to sneak into a castle and disguises himself as one of the castle guards by stealing a uniform. Of course, I could just check whether the item "guard uniform" is present in the party, but it would be more realistic if I could check if one of the party members actually has equipped the uniform when entering the castle. And, depending on "uniform equipped" or "not equipped", different events should follow (e.g. using a logic block event).
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 16, 2016, 10:14:44 AM
I think you have asked the right question now.

Here is what I would do:

The 'Character Context' of each character is readily
available by using the function "ForEachPartyMember".
This function can be used anywhere.
see:
http://www.dianneandpaul.net/UAF/Help/SASpecialAbilitiesScripts.html

The script which you specify will be run for each party member
with 'Character Context'.  The actor parameter can be generated
by '$CharacterContext()' as Manikus said.  The result of
running 'ForEachPartyMember' can be the combined results
for all the characters in the party so that if any one of the
party members has the uniform readied then the result will
be 'TRUE'.

The script that you run for each party member can check to see
if the character is dead or alive, for example, and whether he
has the uniform.  It might, for example, increment the number
of party members wearing the uniform.

I might call the 'Global Special Ability' "CheckDisguise" and I
might call the script "IsDisguised".

The final test for a uniformed party member would look like this
$ForEachPartyMember("CheckDisguise", "IsDisguised");
and could be used in an event trigger, Logic Block, or wherever needed.

Now, as to how to check if the character is wearing the
uniform.  You can certainly use $GET_CHAR_Ready().
Or you could be more generic and give the character a
'Disguised' Special Ability when he readies any item with
a particular Special Ability by using the 'OnReady' hook.
But this is probably overkill in your situation.

Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: SilentThief on September 16, 2016, 05:14:12 PM
I probably asked this already, but is there a function to automatically equip a found item? Or create NPCs which already equipped items? This might be also interesting for Hero Craft...

It turns out that we can't do this in DC right now. I was misremembering (what we can do is have NPCs join the party with spells already memorized).

---

unsure how helpful this is for what you want Dinonykos, but here goes:

Unless things have changed since I was playing around with scripts back in .914 (and I know that a lot has...) a monster/character will attempt to ready a weapon if one is not already readied in combat, but not armor as far as I recall. This was how I had set up the "boss and lackey" ideas where a weapon would be equipped at the beginning of a monsters turn in combat, and the weapon would add another copy of itself (unreadied) and then remove itself from the inventory. This allowed me to run a script in between the item swap to check if the boss was alive and if not, kill the lackeys. it was kind of hack-ish, but I could not get a monster/NPC to use any other item back then.

I have not messed with scripts lately, but I suspect there is a better way to do the "boss and lackey" idea now.

ST
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 16, 2016, 05:28:52 PM
I probably asked this already, but is there a function to automatically equip a found item? Or create NPCs which already equipped items? This might be also interesting for Hero Craft...

It turns out that we can't do this in DC right now. I was misremembering (what we can do is have NPCs join the party with spells already memorized).

---


unsure how helpful this is for what you want Dinonykos, but here goes:

Unless things have changed since I was playing around with scripts back in .914 (and I know that a lot has...) a monster/character will attempt to ready a weapon if one is not already readied in combat, but not armor as far as I recall. This was how I had set up the "boss and lackey" ideas where a weapon would be equipped at the beginning of a monsters turn in combat, and the weapon would add another copy of itself (unreadied) and then remove itself from the inventory. This allowed me to run a script in between the item swap to check if the boss was alive and if not, kill the lackeys. it was kind of hack-ish, but I could not get a monster/NPC to use any other item back then.

I have not messed with scripts lately, but I suspect there is a better way to do the "boss and lackey" idea now.

ST

THings have changed. ;) Wee can do the "oss" check sans items, too.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 19, 2016, 09:31:31 AM
Back to the question of fires going out.

Using version 2.55 of the engine......The fire goes
out if a global asl entry "UseWallIndex" is defined.
Otherwise the fireplace disappears.

Moreover, it should all work with 0.914 designs.
'Should' being the operative word here.  Let me
know your experience.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 19, 2016, 10:11:46 AM
Sorry, I did not yet test it, but I will do so. I spend most of my little free time doing the art for this design during the last weeks, but as written above, I am almost finished with that and can return to using the editor soon. I will then test both the compability with 0.914 and if I can get the "check if items are readied" thing to work.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 19, 2016, 12:59:59 PM
Great  news, Paul! I look forward to hearing how this works.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 26, 2016, 05:05:38 PM
I tested the wall change logic block.

Good thing: It works - I imported a level from a 0.914 design and with the newest engine, the wall was changed.
The "bad" thing is that of course, the wall numbering is still shifted by one in the editor. That means, when importing a 0.914-design using the logic block function to change walls into 2.x, the wall will be changed into another wall than in 0.914. I assume that for a perfect importing function, you would have to change the editor...
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on September 26, 2016, 05:25:42 PM
I thought that the numbers were matching up, but the tabs in the editor were showing the wrong number . Since this is apparently not the case, I think this is a bit bigger deal now.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Paul R. Stevens on September 26, 2016, 06:07:03 PM
Quote
the wall numbering is still shifted by one in the editor.

The editor is supposed to number the walls starting with one. Ordinals.

Did you define the global variable that says you want your
scripts to use numbers starting with zero?  Indexes.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on September 27, 2016, 03:00:22 AM
I have continued the wall-change topic here:
http://ua.reonis.com/index.php?topic=3380.0
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on October 11, 2016, 12:27:06 AM
Oops... no update here for almost two weeks?

Here are two new mini-game related pictures
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 01:10:41 PM
Very nice. :D I can imagine a dice game, but have no idea how you are going to use that big picture - very exciting!
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on October 11, 2016, 01:15:11 PM
Concerning the instrument - the player has to figure out how to play which chords after given the tuning of the strings. (To keep it fair, I think I will use a standard ukulele tuning...) I have not finally decided how to us the art - it depends a little on how complex the other games become.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 01:16:57 PM
Sounds very ingenious. :) I can't wait to givve it a try.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on October 11, 2016, 01:44:13 PM
Well, please don't expect it until next year, or at least christmas this year. While I have already tested several of the mini games, I have, for example, not yet really tried to implement the dice game I have in mind (though I made a concept how to do it).
Furthermore, I think I should wait for some more feedback to the other designs I completed this year (for example in context with the contest) before publishing this one.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 02:08:23 PM
Fair enough, and not unexpected. I am looking forward to it all the same, but not "holding my breath". ;)

One of my big goals for this last Summer (which obvously I have failed), was to play all of the existing DC designs. I have everthing downloaded and ready to go, but am still working on some bugs - but as soon as the combat issue (free attacks bug appears resolved, but fixing it brought up some other stuff) and the music path issue are resolved, I will take a pause to make sure all databases are up-to -date and we will release. And then, I will play games. :D
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on October 13, 2016, 07:55:27 AM
I am looking forward to it all the same, but not "holding my breath". ;)
That's good! I was a little concerned!  :)

One of my big goals for this last Summer (which obvously I have failed), was to play all of the existing DC designs. I have everthing downloaded and ready to go, but am still working on some bugs - but as soon as the combat issue (free attacks bug appears resolved, but fixing it brought up some other stuff) and the music path issue are resolved, I will take a pause to make sure all databases are up-to -date and we will release. And then, I will play games. :D
I see I caused us to go off-topic again, but... I think it would be good to have at least one review for every DC design. At the moment, we have 21 games on the Ultimate DC Design List (well, including 2 games with demo character and one of which I have still not understood if it is finished or not), but only 6 reviews. For "The Acadamy Demo", I think I should be able to write a short review quickly based on the text I wrote for the 2009 contest. But it would be great to have some reviews for the older designs, too.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on October 13, 2016, 01:31:03 PM
I am in agreement. That is part of my plan when playing the games - to keep notes for a review. :)
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on October 16, 2016, 03:02:37 PM
Very nice. :D I can imagine a dice game, but have no idea how you are going to use that big picture - very exciting!

I will make the "music game" via simple multiple choice. As written above, the player can use an instrument and is given the information who the strings are tuned - then she/he must chose the correct finger positions for a specific chord.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on October 17, 2016, 04:05:34 PM
Very cool. Will there be sounds to accompay the images?
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: Dinonykos on October 18, 2016, 01:03:29 PM
I thought about another way which I think is funnier:
The main character wants to play a certain song, knows the chords she needs to do so, but not how to play them with the "alien" instrument she has to use. But, as written above, she knows the tuning of the instrument.
So, before playing, the player has to chose how to play three chords (without knowing if the selections are correct), and then the character plays the song. There are 27 versions of the song (since it is MIDI, no space problem...) and depending on the three selections, the song will sound better or worse... This may result in a better or worse reputation of the main character.
Title: Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
Post by: manikus on October 18, 2016, 01:33:59 PM
This sounds very clever. I also like that reputation is going to be used - all of my open projects track reputation.