Poll

Read the explanation below, vote and comment: Do you think it's a good idea?

Yes, such a collection would be a great help for designers.
16 (88.9%)
I like the idea of collecting the required info for importing walls but we don't need a collection of ready TLBs.
1 (5.6%)
Skip the part about collecting TOOLBOX info, give us the ready drop-in TLBs only.
1 (5.6%)
We already have corhub, I don't see any need for another collection.
0 (0%)
I don't see any use in this.
0 (0%)
I don't really care about this.
0 (0%)
I think it's a very bad idea and I'll tell you why (see my post below).
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Author Topic: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?  (Read 16439 times)

Offline Vix

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2010, 08:56:59 AM »
Olivier - If Donnie and/or Zvar are unable to host the tlbs, you could try a site like 4Shared. For image hosting Flickr or Photobucket are good choices.

Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2010, 10:43:49 AM »
Thanks for the tip, Vix! I already created a flickr account yesterday, that's pretty easy for people who already got a yahoo account. And it seems to work fine. As for the TLB files, hosting them at rosedragon would be cool and an obvious choice; on the other hand I'm still wondering if it would be a convenient solution for a work-in-progress since it would make fixing, deleting, re-uploading stuff a bit more complicated for me than using my own webspace for now...

Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2010, 11:24:20 AM »
Hm, I tried 4shared but it seems you can't directly link to the downloads. I'd hate to force community members to go to a download site for each individual file and even wait 30 seconds for it or something. I'd prefer direct linking...  :-\

Offline Ben J

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2010, 12:34:13 PM »
Great work on the sticky thread so far, Olivier!
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Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2010, 05:35:05 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement, Ben J, I really appreciate it!  :)

[EDIT]
The sticky does also include working links to all the TLBs now - once again thanks to the generous Donnie Ewald who offered me some ftp space to temporarily host them! Just remember that you need to right-click on them and "save target as...", otherwise it won't work!

So far the selection is strongly based on my personal preferences and tastes, if you miss something important don't hesitate to point it out. And once the links are working I'd also be thankful for any feedback regarding the TLBs' quality (they look good in TOOLBOX but frankly I haven't tested most of them in the editor yet).
« Last Edit: May 16, 2010, 06:15:54 PM by Olivier Leroux »

Offline Ben J

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2010, 07:04:30 AM »
So far the selection is strongly based on my personal preferences and tastes, if you miss something important don't hesitate to point it out.

I'd like to see Kaz-Keith's EOB-style walls (although I don't know if they're available yet - the deepdemo doesn't contain them).

Furthermore the different "fitted stone"-variants and the extra high Tower walls - I never got them to work properly with Toolbox. The same goes for the higher trees in that zip file.
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Offline Ben J

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2010, 07:05:26 AM »
Oh, and hans' color-cycling "shore" walls and backdrop.  :D
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Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2010, 10:31:58 AM »
I'd like to see Kaz-Keith's EOB-style walls (although I don't know if they're available yet - the deepdemo doesn't contain them).

Furthermore the different "fitted stone"-variants and the extra high Tower walls - I never got them to work properly with Toolbox. The same goes for the higher trees in that zip file.

There are some old EOB-style walls by Keith I intend to upload soon but if you're referring to the new ones: Weeell, I still got an early playtest version of the yet unreleased Deepdelvers design so I *could* put some walls up...  ;D But I wouldn't dream of doing it without Keith's permission. I believe he's actually planning to release them soon anyway, so all we need is a little patience.  :)

I'll see what I can do about the high walls. BTW, earlier in this thread I complained about designers using full 8x8db/c.tlbs instead of single drop-in files and claimed that it was difficult to extract the walls from them but I learned it's actually easier to create single drop-in tlbs from 8x8db/c.tlb files than from pcx files and you can easily adopt color-cycling without worrying about settings... (something I think hans already knew but I failed to fully grasp that the last time he mentioned TOOLBOX allows importing from TLBs...)  :)

Still, I think converting useful wallsets to the drop-in format may save some designers from having to go through all the old designs in order to see what they can exploit.

Offline Ben J

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2010, 11:57:52 AM »
I'll see what I can do about the high walls.

It would be cool if we got the high walls to work.

Actually, I've looked into the zip file, and they're already in TLB form. I think when I tried to use them, I made pcx files out of the TLB files and tried to re-import them with TOOLBOX. Maybe I could just have renamed them.  ::)
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Offline Ben J

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2010, 01:46:01 PM »
I've tested the Tower walls. They work, but the only thing you can build with them are four-sided towers.
It would be cool to have walls of this height that can be joined together to form bigger buildings or corridors (you'd need a backdrop with a higher ceiling, of course).
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Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #40 on: May 17, 2010, 02:59:08 PM »
Keith's old EOB style walls are up, as well as Darius' ship walls which include some high walls. Where do I find the high tower walls you mentioned?

Offline Ben J

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #41 on: May 17, 2010, 03:00:24 PM »
They are in this archive at rosedragon: http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/art/w/wallidle.zip
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Offline Kaz-Keith

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #42 on: May 17, 2010, 06:39:42 PM »
Sorry didn't reply to this as I was out of town a week and just got in!

This is a great idea, and to expand:  because filesizes and download speeds are highly negotiable these days (read: easier to handle), I think the best scenario to adopt for uploading multiphase art like wall art would be to include the variants: the drop-in .tlb, a labeled visual .pcx showing what is contained in the .tlb, and the multipart .pcx wall files which would be the easiest to make edtis off of.  In this way, the casual importer, the curious browser, and the motivated modifier all can be satisfied with the same download.  Of course, it goes without saying that the files should be named and described conventionally.


In regards to Toolbox itself:  Dan Autery's program enables one to interpret the wall art in 1 of 2 ways, and import it in only 1 way:

* Wall art can be interpreted the old way: older artwork that uses the segregated/piecemeal wall parts can be optioned by the wall type itself.

-or-

* Wall art can be interpreted the new way: copied/pasted into the default wall templates Dan provided and then imported using the DEFAULT wall type.

-resulting in-

A drop-in .tlb, either way.

The .tlb drop-in is then usable as-is, or may be renamed to any of the usuable drop-in wall art names, without affecting or limited by the type of wall used/overwriting.  Palettes for each wall drop-in .tlb are stored on the .tlb, meaning you can have 3 different wall art palettes for each of the 1-3 wall types used in a given module area.  This may cause palette rewrite breaks, showing in the game as flashes of black or a solid color before showing correctly.  Simply grouping your walls by palette, or by using a palette shared by all three selected walls, keeps this from happening.

Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2010, 04:28:46 AM »
This is a great idea, and to expand:  because filesizes and download speeds are highly negotiable these days (read: easier to handle), I think the best scenario to adopt for uploading multiphase art like wall art would be to include the variants: the drop-in .tlb, a labeled visual .pcx showing what is contained in the .tlb, and the multipart .pcx wall files which would be the easiest to make edtis off of.  In this way, the casual importer, the curious browser, and the motivated modifier all can be satisfied with the same download.  Of course, it goes without saying that the files should be named and described conventionally.

Definitely a good idea for new wall art uploads; as for the old ones I'm still a bit hesitant if it would be acceptable to re-package the pcx files from other art packages and make the original ones superfluous...  :-\ And although filesizes shouldn't matter that much in general, they still DO matter at the rosedragon File Archive (2mb max, I think). It probably wouldn't make much difference though if each wallset had its own zip file. I'm still wondering how to package them later on - single wallset, groups like Wilderness, At Sea etc. or all in one zip file - as long as the filesize allows for it? What do you mean by naming and describing conventionally? Just that the system should be consistent, whatever it is, or do you have a specific convention in mind?


Palettes for each wall drop-in .tlb are stored on the .tlb, meaning you can have 3 different wall art palettes for each of the 1-3 wall types used in a given module area.  This may cause palette rewrite breaks, showing in the game as flashes of black or a solid color before showing correctly.  Simply grouping your walls by palette, or by using a palette shared by all three selected walls, keeps this from happening.

Whoops, I didn't know that. Fortunately, so far it never happened to me, I think. But I remember there's another issue with file size; certain TLBs take up too much memory space when combined and mess up your dungeon or something like that? Can anyone with the knowledge elaborate?

And Keith, since you're here now:  ;D
I've found this comment in the README file for your old EOB wallset (kazwall2.zip): "If it so pleases, I have more pieces based on this set, including: unfitted peasant stone wall, stone wall with wooden roof, mossy stone wall, climbing ivy stone wall, and spell-shattered stone wall." To my knowledge these walls have never been released. Do you still have them? Or will they be part of your enhanced Deepdelver wallsets?

Offline Ray

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Re: POLL: Importing New Wall Art - Made easier?
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2010, 06:38:52 AM »
Woo-hoo! I really hope your offspring will grant you enough time for another design or two.  ;)

Thanks, Olivier!  I really hope so, too!  She's been active during the day so far, and some folks have said that the patterns Maureen experiences now are similar to what we'll get once the baby's born.  If that's the case, we'll be lucky parents.  Whenever I say this, folks usually just roll their eyes, though...


That explains why you seem to have some kind of aversion against TOOLBOX.  :D Sorting through a few designs, I noticed that while Darius is a great fan of drop-in TLBs there are still a lot of prominent designers who use other methods to import walls, even hans sometimes. Do you guys still use WALLEDIT or how it's called? The downside of these methods is that it gets more complicated for other designers to re-import specific walls from other designs into their own. So I'm curious, what are the advantages of importing walls without using TOOLBOX' drop-in TLBs?

I totally use Walledit, because I can so rarely get Toolbox to work for me. 

I just read Keith's post about a second method for using the art, and I'm floored.  I had no idea that was possible.  I think I've been using the wrong half of Toolbox all these years...Is there a tutorial out there somewhere that walks me through using the DEFAULT art template?  There are some pieces of wall art that I've archived that I'd love to use...


Thanks, Olivier...This thread is really opening my eyes to something that I didn't know existed!



 

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