HERO CRAFT HUB (Super Hero Base for Dungeon Craft)

[Vix]

Many Marvel video games use a class system as follows:

Generalist
Blaster
Bruiser
Infiltrator
Scrapper
Tactician

These are somewhat self explanatory, and can cover a wide range of hero types without limiting it by powers.

A blaster could be a tech suit with repulsors, a magician with eldritch blasts, a psychic with mind blasts, or a normal human with a laser rifle, for example.  Or, a bruiser could be a tech suit that enhances strength and durability, a magician who summons armor or tough creatures, a psychic who encases herself in mind-armor and enhances her power, or a normal human wearing tech/magic Hulk hands.

[manikus]

I think in the terms of Hero Craft (HC) (not unlike SHUA) these would be more like party roles - you know how certain MMOs are - you need a tank, a healer and a sharp-shooter.

So, they could be a Detective in HC terms, but play the role of Bruiser. Am I making sense?

[Vix]

I get that.

I honestly would stick to SHUA names. DC (or HC) seems to allow much easier renaming of variables designers may wish to tinker with.

[manikus]

I get that.

I honestly would stick to SHUA names. DC (or HC) seems to allow much easier renaming of variables designers may wish to tinker with.

I would be remiss in my job as DC project manager if I didn't take this opportunity to say that only are there mroe renaming possibilities, I can just add/subtract any classes I can figure out how to script. Fore example, default Dungeon Craft has assassins and druids - two completely new classes (to our little project).

[manikus]

I don't really know what to do with this right now. There are so many ways taht things can be done that I need to know what people want to do with Hero Craft. We could ake it like SHUA or completely different or anyplace in between..
One of the main things that needs to be decided is how to give PVs powers/abilities. As items? AAs SAs through an event? Only allow pre-made PCs?

While I am going to use MSH as the base for Marvel characters, I've decided that it would be besst to use DC Adventures as the base for DC characters. Or maybe there is a good Marvel source that is more recent?

[manikus]

Okay, I have been working on my own superhero design again, and it's based in the DC Comics universe, so I stepped away from using Hero Craft/SHUA and decided to adapt DC Adventures/Mutants and Masterminds 3rd Edition for use in Dungeon Craft. Then I thought that since I am doing this, maybe I should convert all fo the DCA characters (because spreadsheets are magical). That is close to 500 characters. I've got dozens of hours ahead of me and at least a dozen behind me.

When I get a working character creation mini-mod, I will share it. I am doing some things that might influece the way we want to take Hero Craft, namely removing classes and using point pools to by ability ranks, skill ranks, powers and equipment.
Removing classes? There is only one class to choose in the standard DC character creation (Adventurer), but in the mini-mod, the player can choose one of several archetypes, like "Powersuit", "Crime Fighter", "Detective", etc. The archetype will give the PC a particular base of improvements which they can then tweak to get the hero (or villain) that they want; or they can build from scratch if they so desire.

[manikus]

I feel like I'm in a bit of a holding pattern on this project. I've been waiting for more feedback, that is likely not going to come, I don't mean more from a particular person, but more as in more people. There likely are only a couple of us interested in making a superhero design, so I'm just going to go on with my plans, taking what Nol and Vix have posted on strong advice.
I"m going to base my work on Mutants & Masterminds system, which means 8 stat scores and skills for everyone if they want them.
I will be doing powers and advantage as special abilities instead of as items, but I will be making a character creation mini-mod as I go so that it is easy to understand how ot use a point pool to buy all of non-item (and a few items) things that make a super-powered individual.

[Nol Drek]

I'm interested to see what you come up with. It sounds like we will have the 8 stats:
Strength, Agility, Fighting, Awareness, Stamina, Dexterity, Intellect, and Presence.

In addition to a point buy system, you might consider including some Archetypes for players who would rather just choose a balanced build instead of trying to figure out which powers to buy. It's a trade off between having a high level of customization versus being able to create a character quickly and getting right to the action.

Some Archetypes to consider including are:
Battlesuit, Construct, Crime Fighter, Energy Controller, Gadgeteer, Martial Artist, Mimic, Mystic, Paragon, Powerhouse, Psychic, Shapeshifter, Speedster, Warrior, and Weapon Master

[manikus]

Yes, I will be using the 8 stats. 6 of them will correspond to the usual 6 DC stats and the other two, agiligy and Fighting will modify AC and ThaC0 respectively.

I think you are spot on about the archtypes. I think that it will be doable - they will still be bought, but will take the full amount of points, obviously I will want to make this the first choice, use an archtype or build your own character. I am going to shoot for power level 10 (150 points). I will write something up to explain to designers how to raise or lower the point total and how to change the archtypes. It should be straight forward enough, but time consuming and very detail oriented.

[manikus]

After finishing a version of the items database, I realized that my version of Hero Craft was going to be kind of complicated at time of character creation. So, I decided to shelve that work. Instead, I will strip it down a bit - go from 8 abilities to 6 (all of which are corollaries of the standard 6), remove most of the "Expertise" Skills. The biggest change is the items database - now instead of buying, for example, a ranged blast attack and being able to purchase additional levels of damage, there are going to be two version available, a level 5 version and a level 10 version. Level 5 means 5 dice of damage, and level 10 means 10 dice of damage.

Additionally, I think I will forego using the menu events that I was using to allow players to "purchase" powers and use something completely scripted through the talk.bin system. The sole reason being that using events, I can never have more than five (5) options at a time, usually four (4) items and an option to returrn to the previous screen. If you 100 different powers to market, that is a hell of a lot events, and then each item can be from level one (1) up to like forty (40) or higher. We're talking  thousands of events just to get a PC ready to start the game. Before I go gangbusters on the scripting, I will discuss things with Paul, as he likely will be able to think of several things to make my life easier in this respect.

Currently, I am working on NPCs and the unique items that each need. Pretty soon I will need an alpha tester.

[Dinonykos]

I think it is wise to reduce the complexity a little bit.
My personal taste in this context is - why not randomize some characteristics to a degree? And maybe certain superpowers should automatically result in not getting others?

[manikus]

I think it is wise to reduce the complexity a little bit.
My personal taste in this context is - why not randomize some characteristics to a degree? And maybe certain superpowers should automatically result in not getting others?

I have a version of races database that is set up for variable ability numbers. The reason I haven't implemented this is because I am giving starting characters a certain number of hero points (with which to buy powers, skills, etc). I could write a script that would examine the abilities and subtract/add the proper number of points.

I am trying to set up the powers so that certain things preclude the use of other things. However, following Nol's suggestion, I am not making the powers cursed, so that way I can give the player the msot options. Okay, not completely true, there are like three things that are cursed because they are skeletal or skin.

My own personal design will use the more complicated system, because it is really just more comlicated for me and more options for the player, that they can ignore. Game play will be similar, I will just more checks that I can make.

[manikus]

27 NPCs done. 73 to go.

I am creating "unique items" for the NPCs as I go. So far, Black Adam and Dormammu take the cake for toughest/most powerful bad guys.

[Mechanaut]

Has anyone here ever played "Heroes Unlimited" by Palladium Books?  IMO it's a really good base for a super-hero game [because it is one; they have done a lot of the work already ]. It covers generating many of the staple archetypes, and conforms superpowers to an RPG combat rule system that allows for even 'Invulnerable' PCs (Like Superman and the Hulk; although technically, I don't think you can make Superman or the Hulk with the rule system; just like you couldn't ~actually make the Ninja Turtles in their [rather excellent] TMNT RPG).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_Unlimited
https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/15/15534.phtml

[manikus]

I have heard of Heroes Unlimited...this was the game that became Champioins? Or Champions became this game? I have played Champioins a couple of times, like 20 - 25 years ago.

I'm basking my work off of Mutants & Masterminds 3rd Edition. Nol Drek had suggested this system. I like it. I've done a bit to make it more like Dungeon Craft's default play style, so it's a hybrid. A real selling point was that the publisher put out "DC Adventures" based on the M&M3e rules, so all of the DC characters were already done for me. And the community for Green Ronin games have created characters for 400 to 500 Marvvel characters, too.