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Dungeon Craft => Dungeon Craft - Development => Topic started by: manikus on June 16, 2016, 01:06:58 PM

Title: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER - now LIVE
Post by: manikus on June 16, 2016, 01:06:58 PM
add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER

This idea came about as an attempt to use some of the amazing combat icons that Uatu has made. He and I have talked about it for a while, and over time, some additional art was created, like combat walls.

This is a little bit more complicated than the DINOSAURS add-on. First, it is not stand alone. Second, there are multiple databases that need to be updated in addition to the monsters database.

full instructions when databases uploaded[.i]

STATUS:
This project is now live...
http://manikus.reonis.com/add-ons/underwater/index.html
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 16, 2016, 01:11:00 PM
Uatu has provided a lot of great animal icons that are not in the 1e books, but that I want to add.
Question: Should I extrapolate from the 1e entries? Or, should I go to a reference source and build it from my own (maybe our own) imagination?
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on June 18, 2016, 02:55:50 AM
Hey Manikus - thanks again for your work on this!  :D

For most of my "alternate" animals, I was thinking along the lines of...
Most of the Monster Manual, etc. entries for real-life animals seem to be made purposely vague, such as "Flightless Bird" or "Dolphin" or the like, with variable Hit Dice given.  "Dolphin," "Shark," and so forth could basically just be given more or less HD and they should be good, I think (and I would just put porpoises with dolphins)!

For the whales, actually, various whales' statistics are in the Dungeon Master's Guide, if you've not found them yet (Appendix E, under "whale"); then we have narwhales in the MMII.  I was thinking in terms of (my whales = AD&D whales):

Beluga Whale = White (Beluga) Whale
Beaked Whale = Black Whale
Orca = Killer Whale
Bowhead Whale = Right Whale
Sperm Whale = Sperm Whale
Narwhal = Narwhale
That leaves the blue whale, which I don't think has been given specific "official" stats - I guess either the Monstrous Manual's vague whale stats can be used, or the DMG whales could be proportionately added to (I don't have a humpback icon, but stats in the DMG can possibly be used as a base, since it is a baleen whale like the blue).
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 20, 2016, 02:47:57 PM
Thank you, Uatu. :)

I'm still working through MM...and I know that there are some stats in the DMG, but didn't realize the whales were hiding there. :D

I was going to try and finish the illusionist before doing this, but now that I see how much art I need for the illusionist add-on, I will shift back to this.
I have no plans to separate the fresh water from the salt water entries. i will leave this up to the designers, and maybe someone will post here which goes with which in case someone is unsure.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 22, 2016, 03:49:02 PM
I am losing hours that I could be working on the database looking at all of the awesome infographics.

Here is a great whale infographic:
http://www.scubaff.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/UkoGorterPoster_lg.jpg
shark infographic:
https://www.innovation.ca/sites/default/files/Shark-wallpaper-1900x1220.png
prehistoric marine life:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81B-ThSHUHL._SL1200_.jpg
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 23, 2016, 03:47:40 PM
Dinonykos & Uatu:
I am going to list some icons I would like for this project. If you have the time and the inclination to do any of them that would be awesome, but if not, no worries. :D

Humpback Whale
Barracuda
Giant Crab
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on June 25, 2016, 12:53:07 AM
Pretty awesome links there.

I met a wild humpback whale once, long ago in Maine :D  I might do an icon one of these days - but whales are so big :D  Also was thinking about doing more prehistoric aquatic critters, too.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 25, 2016, 02:16:41 PM
Ispenta whole aftnoon looking at inforgraphics. :D I thought it wouldbe awesopmeto see some specifically for AD&D monsters...I haven't looked yet. Maybe today. :D

If you are interested in doing some icons that would help out and are smaller than a humpback whale (and really that means most things), I need icons for giant crab, giant gar and giant pike. Also, icons for the aquatic hobgoblin,ogre and gargoyle would be nice. Do you already have an icon for a selkie? I thought I saw one, but it's not in my collection...so, I guess I need icons for selkies and sea lions, too. :D No pressure, though. Much like the dinosaur add-on, if I don't have an icon for the monster, I will still add it to the database and let the designer figure out what she wants to do. :)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on June 26, 2016, 10:18:08 AM
The problem with infographics for AD&D is that sizes might change through the various editions - I remember that dragons and giants grew quite a bit from 1e to 2e.

I have not done a selkie icon (unless I did one in my sleep, so perhaps I can't say for sure).  I'll try to put my mind into "aquatic creatures mode," but my hands sometimes just start doing stuff without my brain's telling them to - just today I went and did a different giant aquatic creature for some reason...  I think that the reason in the end was that I just wanted to see how big the creature was, compared to whales and megalodons and the like (the good thing is that all of my icons are in the same scale)...
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Nol Drek on June 26, 2016, 01:08:51 PM
Not really an infographic, but I learned about the origin of the Owlbear, Rust Monster, and Bulette:

http://diterlizzi.com/home/owlbears-rust-monsters-and-bulettes-oh-my/
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 27, 2016, 06:27:33 PM
I haven't found any AD&D infographics for underwater monsters. :(

Nol, that is a great link. Who knew? Now, I kind of want to get some of those little plastic figures.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Nol Drek on June 27, 2016, 07:43:37 PM
Quote
there was a set of plastic toys laughingly labeled as dinosaurs IIRR. I frequented the local dime stores back in the late 60s and early 70s searching for toys that would suit tabletop fantasy gaming. The said bag contained three we incorporated--the bulette, the owl bear, and the rust monster.

Source: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?22566-Q-amp-A-with-Gary-Gygax/page601&p=2964677#post2964677
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 28, 2016, 05:27:43 PM
Quote
there was a set of plastic toys laughingly labeled as dinosaurs IIRR. I frequented the local dime stores back in the late 60s and early 70s searching for toys that would suit tabletop fantasy gaming. The said bag contained three we incorporated--the bulette, the owl bear, and the rust monster.

Source: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?22566-Q-amp-A-with-Gary-Gygax/page601&p=2964677#post2964677

Awesome! Somehow, this makes teh game seem even cooler, and it's nice to hear it coming from teh horse's mouth, so to speak.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on June 30, 2016, 07:34:39 PM
Okay, below is a list of the entries in the add-on. Any glaring omissions? The caveat is I am not including any outer plane creatures (they will be in another add-on) and no animals that only occassionally spend time in water (like the beaver and otter and the giant varieties of the same).

Code: [Select]
Aboleth
Afanc
Aquatic Elf|female
Aquatic Elf|male
Baiji Porpoise|Dolphin
Baird's Beaked Whale|Black Whale
Barracuda
Beluga Whale|White (Beluga) Whale
Black Urchin
Blue Whale|Humpback Whale as base
Bottlenose Dolphin|Dolphin
Bowhead Whale|Right Whale
Bull Shark
Bullywug
Crabman
Crocodile
Dragon Turtle
Elasmosaurus
Electric Eel
Eye of the Deep
Floating Eye
Froghemoth
Giant Catfish
Giant Crab
Giant Crayfish
Giant Crocodile
Giant Eel
Giant Gar
Giant Lamprey
Giant Octopus
Giant Pacific Octopus|Giant Octopus base
Giant Pike
Giant Porteugese Man-o-war
Giant Sea Turtle
Giant Squid
Giant Water Spider
Great White Shark
Greater Seawolf
Green Urchin
Greenland Shark
Hammerhead Shark
Hippocampus
Hippopotamus
Humpback Whale|Humpback Whale
Ixithxachitl|large
Ixithxachitl|medium
Ixithxachitl|small
Kelpie
Killer Whale|Killer Whale
Koalinth|Hobgoblin
Kopoacinth|Gargoyle
Kraken
Kuo-toa
Kuo-toa|1
Lacedon|Ghoul
Lesser Water Elemental
Locathah
Marid
Masher
Megalodon|Giant Shark
Mermaid
Merman
Merrow|Ogre
Morkoth
Mottled Worm|Purple Worm
Muckdweller
Narwhal|Narwhale
Nereid
Nixie
Nymph
Ophidian
Piranha
Red Urchin
Sahuagin
Sahuagin Guard|or Lieutenant
Scrag|Troll Fresh-water
Scrag|Troll Salt-water
Sea Hag
Sea Horse
Sea Lion
Sea Snake
Seawolf
Selkie
Silver Urchin
Sirine
Sperm Whale|Sperm Whale
Strangle Weed
Swordfish
Sylph
Triton
Troglodyte
Vaquita Porpoise|Dolphin
Water Elemental
Water Naga
Water Weird
Yellow Urchin

That's right, 96 entries. :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 04, 2016, 10:09:59 AM
Pretty awesome information guys :D

Nice long list - but where are the prehistoric sea baddies?  :D  (Just kidding - but I did go and make an icon, though...  I am sometimes not sure if I am doing the drawing, or if the drawing is just using me to be drawn...)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 05, 2016, 01:12:11 PM
AD&D doesn't have a lot of prehistoric swimmers...what am I missing? I don't plan on doing any dinos that just stand around in water unlesss they also spend some time completely underwater, like hippos. :D

I have this wonderful jellyfish icon, Uatu, but aside from a reference in the 2e MM in another creatures description, I can't find any stats for a Portuguese Man-o-war (or any other jellyfish). I even looked to Dragon magazine. If one of you folk wanted to put forth some numbers that other folks looking at this thread can comment on (and agree upon) I will add it in.

I added some more things to the list and just now realized that walrus was not one of them.  Big news here - not counting the jellyfish, any missing prehistorics and the walrus, the monsters are done. Next I will do the itemss, then the spells, then the special abilities. :D I would say that I am at least 80% of the way done with this. In fact, I am so far ahead of my schedule that I am considering doing some icons myself (well, they will likely be some icon re-colors).
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Jadefang on July 05, 2016, 09:21:32 PM
There's 2e stats for Giant Jellyfish here (http://www.lomion.de/cmm/jellgian.php), you could convert it to 1e.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 06, 2016, 09:37:00 AM
Portuguese Man-o-War, Giant is an entry in the Monster Manual :D  It is even fairly flexible (sizes from S to L, 1-4 HD)!  (Technically, it is not a jellyfish, though.)

Also, in the "Dinosaurs" section of the MM, there are a fair number of non-dinosaur aquatic creatures, such as the Dinichtys (a giant fish), Archelon Ischyras (a giant turtle), Plesiosaurus, and Mosasaurus (which is the icon I did).  The MMII has the Nothosaurus and Tenndontosaurus (should be Temnodontosaurus - a huge ichthyosaur).  I wish it had some smaller ichthyosaurs!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on July 06, 2016, 10:13:44 AM
Dinichtys (Dunkleosteus) would be a great creature for an underwater scenario!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 06, 2016, 12:50:07 PM
Okay, my bad - I only searched for jellyfish, not by the specific name. D'oh! I will add that tnoght.

I will look at all of teh dinosaurs listed, and since I already did the entries, it would e criminal not to add them. ;) Now, I just need to work on teh walrus and then on to the rest of the stuff.

Thanks all.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 06, 2016, 01:37:04 PM
I was under the impression that there was a Portuguese Man-of-War icon on your site, Uatu. Can't find it if there is, nor in my collection... Regardless, the jellyfish is in!

edited to add:

All six dinos/prehistoric creatures on the list have been added. :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 10, 2016, 11:06:23 PM
Walrus - well, in 2e Forgotten Realms, from the Powers and Pantheons book, there were some simple statistics for seals and walruses.  :D  Here they are:

Seals (2d8): AC 6; MV 3, Sw 24; HD 2; THAC0 19; #AT 1; Dmg 1d4 (bite); SZ M (4-6 feet); ML avg (9); Int animal (1); AL N; XP 35.

Walruses (2d8): AC 5; MV 3; Sw 24; HD 2+2; THAC0 19; #AT 1; Dmg 2d4 (bite); SZ L (7-9 feet long); ML avg (10); Int animal (1); AL N; XP 65.

...just for your reference, just in case!

Sorry, I can't say I have made any jellyfish or related animal icons yet.  The Man-o-war looks interesting if a bit difficult - since the top part is supposed to float on top of the water.  (Also interesting how in AD&D, the name kept the "Portuguese" part in there - since most names took out the historical geographical elements.)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 11, 2016, 01:31:19 PM
Thanks, Uatul :D

I had not thought to look in Powers and Pantheons for creature stats. I think I might use one or both of these because... I want to. ;) I am likely going to lower the seals HD and XP or raise the walrus HD. It seems odd that they would be so close.

It is weird that they kept Portuguese - maybe I will drop that and go with Giant Man-o-war Jellyfish.

I believe that I have models for all 3 of these, not to mention some others like crab that you, Uatu, do not have icons for. I am waiting until I am completely done with the databases first, though. I tend to get lost in the art and by the time I am done with it, don't feel like doing any more database stuff. ;)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 12, 2016, 11:23:38 AM
I guess that those are pretty big seals there?  :D

As for the man-o-war - they're not jellyfish, exactly...  apparently they are something called siphonophores, which are like weird jellyfish relatives that are actually little mini-organisms that stick together and act like a single organism.  "Siphonophore" sounds kind of exotic, actually!

Art kind of does that to me, too, to be honest!  :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 14, 2016, 12:46:33 PM
Walrus made it onto the list per it's 2e stats. Seal made it on, but as 1+1 and fewer XP points.

I am working on special abilities now and think the monster roster is complete.
However....
Uatu, if you had a secret hidden icon of a 5 to 6 foot long Tiger Shark, I would like to add a mediumm sized shark. I realize that I don't need the icon for it, but we have icons for all of the other sharks and it would be cool if it was ready to use.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 15, 2016, 07:50:07 PM
Hmm - I don't have a tiger shark icon unfortunately!  Maybe if the icon bug bites me for that one...
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 16, 2016, 02:21:46 PM
Well, let thiss be an official request then. :D If you get the time of course. By the by, the next add-on that I will start is one of several Outer Planes add-ons. I think I will tackle those by race, so any icons you might have hidden on you computer somewhere will be called for. :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 22, 2016, 12:08:26 PM
At any rate, here is my somewhat rough mosasaurus icon, along with a more realistic (?) coloring of the old elasmosaurus icon, too.  (I might shade it more later, but since I've not touched it for 2 weeks or so now, I am temporarily giving up.)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 22, 2016, 01:18:05 PM
Woot! These are awesome! I will add them to the package.

I am far enough long that I took some time to try my hand at a Tiger Shark and Mako Shark, both on the smallish size for their kind, but I really want some smaller sharks for folks to use.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 25, 2016, 07:35:42 AM
As for sharks...  Hmm, lessee...

AD&D stats for normal sharks seem to range from 3-8 HD, with 3 damage ranges, and 2 size ranges (M to L).  Actually, re-reading the entry, it seems that Giant Shark includes great whites and megalodons, from 20-50' in size, and with 10-15 HD and 3 damage ranges.  'M' is 5'-7', so...

That gives us:

HDD
3 (5') - Blacktip Shark
4 (7') - Spinner Shark
5 (9') - Blue Shark, Sand Tiger Shark
6 (11') - Bull Shark, Narrowtooth Shark
7 (13') - Short-finned Mako Shark?
8 (17') - Tiger Shark?
10 (20') - Great White Shark, Great Hammerhead Shark, Greenland Shark
11 (26'?)
12 (32'?)
13 (38'?)
14 (44'?)
15 (50') - Megalodon

I've bolded what I have made already.  Hmm - might be nice to have some of the littler sharks on this list, I guess!  I wish some of the more peculiar-looking ones (that are also aggressive) were smaller, too, though!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 25, 2016, 03:46:20 PM
I've got different info for Tiger and Mako sharks, plus I was looking at some smaller than average varieties because I was looking at North Atlantic data (British web site list data for sharks off the coast of Britain? Crazy. ;) )

I am going to do a Tiger Shark icon - 12' average length (according to Sharks-World.com) - because I like Tiger Sharks. :D This same web site is saying 6' to 9' for Mako. Hmm. This is not the British site...maybe I need to find something more "definitive"?

I will use your list to look for sharks, though. :D

Edited to add:

We could use the Dwarf Lanternshark at 1/4 HD - it's only 8 inches long at maturity. That would be like five or six pixels long. ;)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on July 27, 2016, 09:03:10 AM
Ha ha - 5-6 pixels should be a pretty easy fix...

As for sharks and others critters' sizes - it's always a challenge, since statistics seem all over the place sometimes.  One problem is that "big is always better" - so everyone seems to try and put the biggest sizes for each species ever - but that's like describing human beings as being "up to 9' in size" which MAY be true, but isn't really representative of the species.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 27, 2016, 01:06:41 PM
You are completely right about this - most sites want to give the longest and heaviest, especially shark sites that have a section on shark attacks or that focus on shark attacks.

I did find a nice new interactive graphic at National Geographic though that didn't answer my questions, but was cool to use and pretty to look at.
It turns out that Wikipedia is actually a good place to start - use their info and then follow their links to get to better sources. Sharks on Wikipedia are done very well.

Icons other than the Dwarf Lanternshark that I am considering...
Starfish: 2 - 4 pixels
Sea Urchin: 2 - 3 pixels
Seahorse: 1 pixel
Sardines: 2-3 pixels
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on July 29, 2016, 12:45:06 PM
Spells are done and work on the Special Abilities has begun.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 05, 2016, 01:24:57 PM
Lest people think I am not still working on this, I've gotten about 3/4ths of the spells done and toook a break to do some icons for it, one of which is attached to this post. :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 05, 2016, 01:54:49 PM
How about another icon? While I am using 3D resources for this and the whale, I am trying to do them in a style siilar to Uatu. :) That won't be the case for all of the ones I am doing, but as many as I can.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 11, 2016, 12:53:49 PM
I am now finished with the spells database and have started thinking about the special abiliities database. I am also working on some more icons. :)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 12, 2016, 01:02:37 PM
I'm about 25% done with the special abilities. This is going to take way  longerr than I anticipated, but that's not a bad thing. What am I talking about? Looking at the default database for models, I discovered that many SAs were incomplete or had scripts that were redundant, and even a couple that didn't do anything at all. Those are all fixed and I'm looking through the database for other similar scripts. I've also decided to add in some SAs that aren't used by the other databases, but will be in place for a designer to easily add them to their own monsters/spells/items.
I'm going to continue to work this way, and when I am done with the Underwater add-on, there will be a nice update for the default databases too.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 15, 2016, 05:39:47 PM
I've got a few more SAs done, but mostly did some icons this weekend. Would you like me to share one?

I am only going to be sharing my original icons - all fo the color conversions, minor tweaks of Uatu's, you will have to wait for the download to see those.

Today, I present the Aboleth. This is kind of a weird monster, I've always thought of it as somewhat mechanical because of those eyes...
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Nol Drek on August 15, 2016, 06:57:30 PM
Today, I present the Aboleth. This is kind of a weird monster...

There's nothing weird about a gigantic, amphibious, slimy, telepathic 3-eyed fish with tentacles.

Thanks for making this icon!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on August 16, 2016, 10:33:08 AM
I got dibs on the seahorse - wait, it might be smaller than 1 pixel...

Nice icons!  I didn't even know what a blue shark was until now...  and the humpback whale is very humpbacky.  Aboleth looks good, too, that was always a weird creature!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 16, 2016, 12:42:48 PM
I am sorry to say, Uatu, that a Sea Horse will not be included in the database. They're not in the monster books. ;) Now, Giant Sea Horse, it's in there. :D What would the Sea Horse attack be? "You are swarmed by a school of cute little creatures that flap their fins at you and then flee." Special attack is "Distract by Cuteness".

Just out of curiosity I did a quick search on Aboleths, and didn't find anything per the 1e version in the first 20 results, but lots of references to the Pathfinder, d20 and D&D 3.5+ versions, where it is quite a bit bigger (almost twice the size), slimmer, faster and a "master of mind magic". ??? To me, that 1e pic in all of it's line-drawing glory, looks like a cross between a mollusk, catfish and bathosphere. :D I always imagined that if I used one as a DM, I would have a gnome pilot inside.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Nol Drek on August 16, 2016, 05:27:54 PM
Dragon Magazine #131 has an article on the Ecology of the Aboleth. This article describes the Greater, Noble, Ruler, and Grand Aboleths. The Grand Aboleth is a unique creature that is 70' long. The Night Below boxed set introduced the spell-casting Savant Aboleth.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 16, 2016, 05:37:09 PM
Thanks, Nol. :) I'll check it out. Who knows - maybe I'll do another, bigger icon for one of the other kind of Aboleths.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 18, 2016, 12:46:05 PM
I have now finished all of the special abilities except for the "aura" ones, of which there are nine - this means I am about 80% done with them.

In addition, I have another new icon which I will share - the manta ray.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: SilentThief on August 19, 2016, 01:32:36 AM
these icons are incredible.

ST the awed
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on August 19, 2016, 03:00:07 AM
I agree, both Manikus' and Uatu's icons look great! Somehow I overlooked the most recent posts in this thread... We should indeed do a kind of underwater design soon!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: steve_mcdee on August 19, 2016, 03:03:48 AM
I agree, they look great!

Manikus, is something wrong with the shadows - they look like they have stars in them?
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on August 19, 2016, 03:06:46 AM
I thought Manikus shaded the blue shadows a little to make it look more "marine" (you know, around 50 m water depths where some diffuse light still hits the ground... :) ).
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 19, 2016, 12:44:11 PM
Thanks for the kind words. :)

The shadows are indeed shaded blue in a checkerboard pattern with the masking color to try and give a marine look to it. :D If anyone wants to use any of these icons and prefer a traditional black shadow, please feel free to change that on your icons. All of Uatu's icons use the traditional black shadow, by I changed them to the marine look for this add-on.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on August 22, 2016, 01:02:09 PM
The databases are done. Well "alpha" done. I have loaded them all into DC to let the engine find the syntax bugs and have already fixed the items and monster databases. :D

I am thinking about adding one or two more of the aboleths, and if I do, the special abilities are already there, so should be easy.

I still have five icons to make from already rendered images and 3 or 4 more that still need to be rendered. Getting very close... ;D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on September 13, 2016, 06:02:01 PM
This is still being worked on. I am making icons and I guess I will do a wall so that there is at least one wall with the set. Even with my efforts, only about 75% of the monsters will have icons.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Nol Drek on September 13, 2016, 07:27:08 PM
This is still being worked on. I am making icons and I guess I will do a wall so that there is at least one wall with the set. Even with my efforts, only about 75% of the monsters will have icons.

If you are making an underwater wall set, please consider making a dungeon combat tile set to match it.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on September 14, 2016, 08:58:43 AM
I had started working on a cave wall which I thought could also be transfered into an underwater wall. I must admit though that making walls for the 1024 resolution take me much longer than doing walls for my own 640-res. designs...
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on September 14, 2016, 12:57:30 PM
I had started working on a cave wall which I thought could also be transfered into an underwater wall. I must admit though that making walls for the 1024 resolution take me much longer than doing walls for my own 640-res. designs...

This is kind of funny, because the wall that I am working on is for 640. :D I had rendered some stuff quite a while ago...I guess back when I was only doing stuff for 640. I will accept whatever art at whatever resolution. If you make it at 1024, then I can add it to the default art, but if you just want to do one at 640, it is still completely usable for this project. For example, Uatu's backdrops are for 640.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on September 16, 2016, 01:12:48 PM
Okay, so I was wrong, I am going to make a 1024 version of the wall. :) It turnss out that my rendered source was for the larger resolution after all.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on September 20, 2016, 01:53:11 AM
Okay, then, I will focus on the marine vertebrates for now... :)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 03, 2016, 01:32:33 PM
Thanks again, Nol, for pointing me to the Dragon magazine article on aboleths. :D Greaters Aboleth is now added, and the icon is done.

Dnonykos is doing amazing work on creating needed icons.

I have created a kelp wall for both 1024 640 standard resolutions and converted Uatu's undersea rock wall/overlay to work at 1024 resolution. I have two more wall/overlays to do.
I have collected all of Uatu's undersea small pictures and will ocnvert them for 1024 use as well.
Depending on time constraints, I may create a couple of small pics and several sprites - at least one sprite that is a school of fish that moves across teh viewport.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on October 03, 2016, 02:00:42 PM
It looks like I will do two coral reef and a shipwreck wall soon, but I cannot promise that I will do them for 1024 pixel resolution.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Darcnyss on October 03, 2016, 02:29:38 PM
Impressive list! Wow, could have some serious fun with these!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 03, 2016, 02:31:36 PM
Those walls sound great. :D If you do them for one resolution, I will convert them for the other. I use RotSprite to size up - it is what I have been using to convert Uatu's art to larger sizes. I think it works quite well.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on October 09, 2016, 07:41:43 AM
Manikus, is your add-on just a monster add-on - or will you provide playable marine species somehow? Sorry for asking in case you told elsewhere already, I now became quite interested after doing all these icons.  ;D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 10, 2016, 01:48:51 PM
This add-on is intended to be monsters only, but will include all special abilities, items and spells needed by those monsters.

However, one could easily create some races, especially easy would be aquatic elves (there is good infor in the rulebooks and Uatu has done half a dozen icons for them).  Tritons, Mermaids/men also come to mind. There are several "monster" races that oculd be done, such Sahuagin, Juo-to and Locathah.

The main thing that I was trying to avoid doing was magic underwater. I barely know how most of the stuff works above water... :D There are pretty straight-forward rules for it, it's just more work than i want to do.
In my planned use of underwater critters, I was only going to modify fire-based spells and leave everything else as it is, for example.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on October 10, 2016, 04:40:34 PM
Hmm... I see... So if, let's say, two designers, e.g. Uatu and I, would do an underwater design with aquatic playable characters, would you advice them to leave magic out?
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 10, 2016, 05:17:51 PM
Hmm... I see... So if, let's say, two designers, e.g. Uatu and I, would do an underwater design with aquatic playable characters, would you advice them to leave magic out?

No. Some things need to be changed, i.e. the fire-based spells. In your example, Uatu, I know for a fact knows way more about this thann me. I just know scripting. :D Or maybe you decide that by the nature of magic, nothing needs to be changed. ;)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: steve_mcdee on October 10, 2016, 08:45:16 PM
I barely know how most of the stuff works above water... :D
No-one does: it's magic!  ;D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Milos Gulan on October 11, 2016, 09:01:42 AM
Actualy there are rules for that, DMG expansion: Of Ships and Sea that covers everything above and underwater. Also there are additional things in Pirates of the Sea of Fallen Stars and one more book that covers main underwater races but I really can't remember now which one, I am guessing that it is not Monstrous arcana: Sahuagins but hm lets see it is Forgotten Realms Sourcebook called Sea of Fallen Stars.

Actualy Underwater spellcasting rules are a bit complicated and every spell needs to be checked if it works, and if it does is there any changes to spell effects and usualy there are like changes in distance, power ect.

What I was thinking lately about, and first I need to say sorry for not being able to create any icons for this addon is: Higher Leveling and that is characters above Lv20. I will make another post just to be separated as it is a bit Off Topic and moderators might move it, and I didn't wanted to open new thread but still want to chat about it... Actualy I think it would be better to open a separate thread.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 01:09:20 PM
Milos, I appreciate your input, but please keep your posts on topic - first half of this post is great, second half is something you care about unrelated to this thread, so please post that stuff in a different thread (which you did) and don't tell us in this thread  that you have another unrelated thread.

As per the books mentioned, they are all 2e - ain't nothing wrong with that if folks want to use them - but, I'm doing this 1e in regards to all monster stats

n regards to magic use underwater in DC, I am not really worried about it. Designers can decide if they want to remove some spells or modify them. If I do anything more with this, like creating underwater race, baseclass and class databases, the four races I would include (aquatic elves, locathah, mermen and tritons) only use clerical magic. :) I can do that without complaint. :D

And Steve, you are absolutely correct :D :D :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on October 11, 2016, 01:34:49 PM
... If I do anything more with this, like creating underwater race, baseclass and class databases, the four races I would include (aquatic elves, locathah, mermen and tritons) only use clerical magic. :) I can do that without complaint. :D

Manikus, it would be so great if you could do this - I mean create these 4 races. It is surely true that Uatu has the appropriate knowledge, but I am not sure if either he or I would be able to incorporate this knowledge into special abilities and such things.

I guess I go off-topic admitting that I also tend to go off-topic quite often...  ::)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 02:00:50 PM
... If I do anything more with this, like creating underwater race, baseclass and class databases, the four races I would include (aquatic elves, locathah, mermen and tritons) only use clerical magic. :) I can do that without complaint. :D

Manikus, it would be so great if you could do this - I mean create these 4 races. It is surely true that Uatu has the appropriate knowledge, but I am not sure if either he or I would be able to incorporate this knowledge into special abilities and such things.

I guess I go off-topic admitting that I also tend to go off-topic quite often...  ::)

I will do this. :) I just found the rules section for undereater spellcasting - PHB p57, Unearthed arcana p81, 82. I will create the races today, but wait on classes allowed until you and Uatu give me more info, OR I can do what I think the rulebooks are saying, which means no magic users, only clerics and maybe druids.

Also, I don't mind people going off-topic per se, it's when they go off topic to say we need to come look at some other unrelated topic. I deleted the post with the link to the other thread. I guess what I don't loke is someone stealing a thread. Not cool. If someone goes too far off topic, we can just remind them what the topic is, but if someone is cross-posting from another thread, well, that's the difference between a meandering conversation among friends and someone rudely interrupting and continually saying, "I don't care what you're talking about, come over here and talk with me."
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 02:03:25 PM
I have decided that I m not going to change this add-on package - when I have the rest of the images, I will release it as an add-on. :)
However, I will now also release an underwater template design that will have everything from this add-on with the addition of underwater PC races and classes, items and spells. It will be an "UnderwaterTemplateDesign". I will start a new thread for that once I get something done. ;)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on October 11, 2016, 02:12:54 PM
However, I will now also release an underwater template design that will have everything from this add-on with the addition of underwater PC races and classes, items and spells. It will be an "UnderwaterTemplateDesign". I will start a new thread for that once I get something done. ;)

That sounds really great. I guess several people will appreciate such a template!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 02:18:47 PM
However, I will now also release an underwater template design that will have everything from this add-on with the addition of underwater PC races and classes, items and spells. It will be an "UnderwaterTemplateDesign". I will start a new thread for that once I get something done. ;)

That sounds really great. I guess several people will appreciate such a template!

I hope so. :) In reading about aquatic elves, it mentions that they have regular commerce with their above water cousin elves, so it is not too farfetched to have an underwater design as part of a series. ;)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Milos Gulan on October 11, 2016, 03:23:36 PM
Ok, I understand. I will try catching up. And I didn't know that we are using 1e stats for everything. I mostly think in 2e stats. I will have to get used to it.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 03:30:03 PM
Ok, I understand. I will try catching up. And I didn't know that we are using 1e stats for everything. I mostly think in 2e stats. I will have to get used to it.

Everything for default Dungeon Craft is 1e. It has been the whole time you have been here. ;) It's not a problem for you to suggest other edition solutions for others to use, but the release that I am doing is strictly 1e. When I release this, it is completely acceptable for you to upgrade any or everything to 2e. :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: SilentThief on October 11, 2016, 07:16:06 PM
Everything for default Dungeon Craft is 1e. It has been the whole time you have been here. ;) It's not a problem for you to suggest other edition solutions for others to use, but the release that I am doing is strictly 1e. When I release this, it is completely acceptable for you to upgrade any or everything to 2e. :D

To be honest, it would not be difficult to change over to 2e. There would be minimal changes to monsters stats. The biggest changes would be to character class stats.

ST
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 11, 2016, 07:27:12 PM
Everything for default Dungeon Craft is 1e. It has been the whole time you have been here. ;) It's not a problem for you to suggest other edition solutions for others to use, but the release that I am doing is strictly 1e. When I release this, it is completely acceptable for you to upgrade any or everything to 2e. :D

To be honest, it would not be difficult to change over to 2e. There would be minimal changes to monsters stats. The biggest changes would be to character class stats.

ST

It wouldn't be hard, no, but it would be tedious, because you still have to look at both versions of each jsu to see if anything has changed - I guarantee that XP will have changed for all of them. ;)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: SilentThief on October 11, 2016, 08:44:56 PM
agreed. This is part of the reason I have not done this... :p

ST
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on October 12, 2016, 01:25:44 PM
agreed. This is part of the reason I have not done this... :p

ST

Down the line a little bit, I will be working on this - 2e ruleset for DC. Actually, I am well more than half way done, but am not working on anything else until at least one of the open projects is done. The next one will be the outer planes project, but then I think it will be time for 2e.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Milos Gulan on October 13, 2016, 11:08:47 AM
Amazing ;D I will try to do what I can, but I have a feeling that I will need a lot to learn.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on November 17, 2016, 01:11:12 PM
I am still working on this. :) Don't fear that it is dead or lost.

I have now fixed all my icons (2 tritons and a scrag finished this morning).

The monster database is done. The item database is done. The special ability database is done, but needs to have some testing.
The total conversion is largely done as well. The spells database is done. The races database is done. Just working on the classes and their special abilities for those classes.

I am also still making some walls to be used as well. :D
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on December 20, 2016, 04:41:49 PM
I haven't stopped working on this. :)

I've been working on the art - I had to fix the shadow of about a dozen icons. More importantly, I am finished with two walls and have one more to go.

Want to see the walls? Here they are...
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: steve_mcdee on December 20, 2016, 08:00:07 PM
Those walls look beautiful manikus.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Dinonykos on December 21, 2016, 05:54:57 AM
Now we can do a forest of anchors!  ;D

Very nice, indeed!
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: Uatu on December 21, 2016, 07:51:05 AM
You guys have done some more awesome work again :D

Did I mention that the manta ray is awesome?  (The manta ray is awesome.)
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on December 21, 2016, 01:39:04 PM
I am glad you guys like my walls. :) I mentioned earlier about needing to re-render the other ones, and I haven't done that yet. But, the library is going to be closed a lot over the next couple of weeks, so I may get to them then. :) I have one with anemones that I think will look pretty good, and the other ones are of sea rocks and a treasure chest.

My goal is to have this project ready to release in early January 2017.

Thank you Dynonikos and uatu for all of your great art, and you really came through to get this thing off the ground, Dinonykos.
Title: Re: add-on for monsters database: UNDERWATER
Post by: manikus on January 03, 2017, 07:08:20 PM
This project is now live. :) Thanks to everyone who has helped out - you guys are awesome.
http://manikus.reonis.com/add-ons/underwater/index.html