Author Topic: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1  (Read 2698 times)

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2015, 02:33:22 PM »
I've actually decided that this design will be all original. :D

I have thought about doing some kind of database set for the DC comics universe to go with Hero Craft, and if I can figure that out, do one for Marvel as well. I haven't decided quite how it should be done - whether I just put a bunch od NPCs together and make sure they have all the supporting stuff in the appropriate databases, or just do some example characters to show how different packages would work (i.e. no duplicates of poswer sets).

And I can't promise that the pre-gen PC won't have super powers. ;) that's really more up to him/her than to me. I think I might not want to share any portraits/icons of the 10 supers before the design is done. Partly I am thinking I would withhold these for purposes of "seeing it for the first time" in game, and partly because I might want to change the style of my art, which I can do rather late in the game and not lose too much time on it.

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2015, 04:56:47 PM »
It is always difficult to decide what to show of a design... Posting screenshots is a motivation for others, I guess (at least I really like to see what designs-in-progress of other authors look like), and it is also good to get some feedback concerning the looks of own designs - on the other hand, it is of course good to keep surprises. So while I think it is good if you do not reveal what the PCs/NPCs look like, it would be nice if you would show a little of your design before the December deadline... :D

And I can't promise that the pre-gen PC won't have super powers. ;)
Super-Powers are alright, I just am not sure if I would like to have a main character with snot-super-powers.
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Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2015, 05:48:28 PM »
I will commit and say that there will be no snot super powers in this design. :)

I will definitely be putting up screenshots - I just don't have the wall art done yet. There will also be characters other than the PC/NPCs and will show some of those, I think. I am doing all the art for this design, so hopefully everything that I show will have something new for folks to see. :)

I am also going to try a "thing" that we (Dinonykos and I) discussed a long time ago - rooftops. I have no idea how this will turn out, so maybe it will get junked, but I know how I am going to do the graphics. :D

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2015, 06:00:59 PM »
Ah yes! Rooftops! I already had some things like bridges and platforms in my designs which use the same approach I assume you will use, but convincing rooftops is surely more effort. Jumping/hovering from rooftop to rooftop is of course something which would fit into a superhero-adventure!

I just found the demo-gif I posted many years back when we discussed this first, I hope it is alright that I post it here again to show what this is about... Then, you can decide if you keep your results secret until December... :D
« Last Edit: August 26, 2015, 06:02:41 PM by Dinonykos »
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Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2015, 06:45:40 PM »
It is perfectly alright that you posted that gif. I probably should have gone looking for it myself. :)

I have figured out the way to get up to roof and down from the roof in 3D mode, assuming that as a super hero you would not just fall off the roof. But, I haven't worked out jumping between buildings yet - maybe teleport events with a skill check which might allow for falling. Hmm, kind of thinking it out as I type. ;)
I don't know what to do about combats - it seems realistic that the villain might try and throw the hero off the roof. How might I accomplish this? No idea. (I could have all of the combats on the ground level, or come up with some story reason why people don't get thrown off of buildings.)

Your work on this is the bar I mist meet. :D

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2015, 07:04:54 PM »
But, I haven't worked out jumping between buildings yet - maybe teleport events with a skill check which might allow for falling. Hmm, kind of thinking it out as I type. ;)

If the Super Hero can Fly or has the Super Jump power, then rooftop jumps should be automatic successes. If the Super Hero has Super Acrobatics or the dreaded Normal Human Athlete Jumping power, then a skill check for success makes sense with falling damage on a failure.

I would like to see how rooftop combat is represented graphically. The 3D view shown above is beyond my ability to create. Throwing a Super Hero who can Fly or has the Super Jump power off a rooftop should do little to no damage.
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Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2015, 07:40:07 PM »
But, I haven't worked out jumping between buildings yet - maybe teleport events with a skill check which might allow for falling. Hmm, kind of thinking it out as I type. ;)

If the Super Hero can Fly or has the Super Jump power, then rooftop jumps should be automatic successes. If the Super Hero has Super Acrobatics or the dreaded Normal Human Athlete Jumping power, then a skill check for success makes sense with falling damage on a failure.

I would like to see how rooftop combat is represented graphically. The 3D view shown above is beyond my ability to create. Throwing a Super Hero who can Fly or has the Super Jump power off a rooftop should do little to no damage.

Excellent points, Nol. This design is "street level" only, but the setting has flyers and jumpers. :D

I can't figure out off the top of my head a way to show rooftop combat that looks like a rooftop. I can do the 3D view though, so that's something. :D

I will have to think about how much damage should occur if a hero gets thrown off a roof. I'm allowing for characters to have climbing skills, so it is possible that they could survive with relatively little damage.

Unrelated to my design, we should start a Hero Craft work group, as I've kind of gone down my own path a bit. :)

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2015, 03:23:54 AM »
I would like to see how rooftop combat is represented graphically.
I doubt it is possible to do this without adding more slots to the combat graphics. You can probably replace the usual walls with chasm-like graphics to symbolize gaps between rooftops, but making it look like different levels (rooftop and ground) would be not convincing (if not impossible). Furthermore, as I understand it, only walls which are set to "blocked" in the 3-D-window will be displayed as walls in combat - but to achieve things like flying/jumping, the walls which represent the rooftop edges should be set to unblocked. Perhaps this could be solved by transferring the party elsewhere before the combat and transfer them back after the combat...  :-\

The 3D view shown above is beyond my ability to create.
It is not that complicated with the "hyperwalls" - it is just a combination of flipped high walls with what I call "floor walls" which I use for streets, grass and so on in other designs.  I should perhaps do some templates which would make it easier for other wall artists to do their own "rooftop" walls (or bridges or whatever). Actually, I even have the templates more or less for the default resolution, I just have to combine some of them...
The problem is that the most distant walls with default settings do not allow completely convincing floors (red arrows in the animation above). Manikus already experimented with additional slots, with a few more slots per wall, it could probably be done perfectly.
An alternative approach with different backgrounds would also work, but in my opinion be less effective. I am looking forward to Manikus' approach and the results!
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Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2015, 01:07:03 PM »
Chasm looking walls for the combat art is a great idea. :) The idea I was rolling around in my brain last night, was to do an outdoor combat, with trees replaced by things one might see on a roof, and set the size of it to 10x10, then a character "leaving" combat would be falling off the building. :)
I do not plan on showing a combat that has both the roof and ground accessible, mostly because I can not see how that can be done. Some things will have to wait until we have a different way of doing combat art.

As an aside, one of the features I would like to add to DC (because I am involved with other  projects that are just as old as DC that can do this...) is to have the combat map be laid out in the editor, similar to the way that we do overland maps. The designer shooses an image as the background for the combat, and places blockages in squares. That is all that needs to change - location of the party and opponents could still be done with scripting as we do it now, etc.


Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2015, 01:11:41 PM »
To get back on topic, I needed a new post. :D

Just to see if I could do it relatively easily, I created a test wall and a floor wall. As a test of concept, I think it turned out pretty well.

Note: All of the art used is just to test, though I may use the walls as they came out along the lines of the look I want; the backdrop definitely not.

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2015, 01:36:05 PM »
Hut ab! That looks pretty good!  :hello2:
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Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2015, 01:52:51 PM »
Thanks. :D

I have done the "inside" floor and create a color-coded guide for myself to make more. However, I haven't yet quite figured out the "outside" floor layout.  (Inside means the party is in the square/can be in the square with the floor, and outside means the party is outside the square and cannot be inside the square with the floor)

I think I may want to do some short walls that can be used at the edge of the roof to look more like modern buildings. :)

I was planning on rendering the walls for this design, but I will have to see how the two kinds of walls look together.

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2015, 02:55:29 AM »
In case it helps, I have attached what I use sometimes... I can delete those again in case you do not need them (any more) to keep your thread clean... :D
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Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2015, 01:33:48 PM »
I made my own. :) exact same principle, but differently shaped areas.

I recall having seen these in a forum (can't remember if it was this one or Ironworks), but I think these would be worth posting in their own thread, with a bit of an explanation of how to use them and maybe one of your gif animations that shows them in action. :)

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: PREVIEW: Crime Alley #1
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2015, 01:43:34 PM »
Yes... I will try to write a kind of tutorial. May take some time, though, since it should be combined with some screenshots from the editor...
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