Author Topic: Stairway to Hell - Going Down  (Read 720 times)

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #15 on: March 30, 2017, 05:49:02 AM »
Now this has got my imagination all fired up - I'm imagining an adventure based on the giant cosmic tree Yggdrasil, with dungeon levels spanning entire branches, and the tree as an ever present backdrop.
With enormous tree, I rather meant a tree covering several squares. :) The Yggdrasil idea is great, in any case, though my understanding of Yggdrasil was that it is outside the perception of normal beings (last not least due to its size).

BTW, have you ever thought about how to do the visual effect of shafts of daylight in a dark cave? That's one thing I've been thinking about.
This is another great idea and Manikus light demo goes a little in that direction. In this context, it may be interesting to know if the auto-darken viewport function could be influenced in game via a script...
« Last Edit: March 30, 2017, 10:15:51 AM by Dinonykos »
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Offline manikus

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #16 on: March 30, 2017, 01:34:27 PM »
Yggdrasil is normally not visible to humans, or to other beings for that matter. Humans can see it if they are taken to it, or if a god wants them to see it. :D

How will stairs look form the open side? Depends on whether or not it is solid underneath, eg stairs carved into a cave wall, or if there is space underneath, eg wooden porch steps with no flashing.

Stairs down? The perspective in DC means the stairs down are invisible to the viewer, or more correctly would be a thick line.

Will the regular perspective work? No.
I've attached an image to show what things look like using your image. The reason I haven't done any "on stairs" images is that in our regular perspective, which moves or down one whole floor at a time, in the cell with the stairs, the viewer's head would be at stair level. I really don't want to change the head height relative to the level, so the solution seems to be moving the stairs. Right?

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #17 on: March 30, 2017, 02:22:15 PM »
Schlau!
:hello2:
I wonder why I didn't think about this earlier.
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Offline marainein

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #18 on: March 30, 2017, 03:02:31 PM »
This is another great idea and Manikus light demo goes a little in that direction. In this context, it may be interesting to know if the auto-darken viewport function could be influenced in game via a script...

There's an auto darken function? Where? Also do we have any screenshots of the light demo? I'll download it later today and take a very good look.

Offline marainein

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #19 on: March 30, 2017, 03:17:00 PM »
Yggdrasil is normally not visible to humans, or to other beings for that matter. Humans can see it if they are taken to it, or if a god wants them to see it. :D
Everyone's an expert on interdimensional travel except me :P

How will stairs look form the open side? Depends on whether or not it is solid underneath, eg stairs carved into a cave wall, or if there is space underneath, eg wooden porch steps with no flashing.
For the pit, I envisaged stairs carved into the cliff like sides of the pit - so no space, just rock.

Stairs down? The perspective in DC means the stairs down are invisible to the viewer, or more correctly would be a thick line.
Do you think it's feasible to draw the downward view as if the viewer had tilted his gaze down (which I think people naturally do when descending stairs)? Maybe the rocks or bricks on the wall next to the stairs would have to be redrawn at an angle. If the stairs aren't visible while descending, it's just going to look like the party is walking on air.

Do you think it would be a good idea to have some sort visual cue that the player is descending? Rocky outcroppings or something on the cliff wall ahead that rise as the player descends?

Offline manikus

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #20 on: March 30, 2017, 04:58:14 PM »
Yggdrasil is normally not visible to humans, or to other beings for that matter. Humans can see it if they are taken to it, or if a god wants them to see it. :D
Everyone's an expert on interdimensional travel except me :P
I just read Neil Gaiman's new book on Norse Mythology last week. :D

Quote from: marainein
How will stairs look form the open side? Depends on whether or not it is solid underneath, eg stairs carved into a cave wall, or if there is space underneath, eg wooden porch steps with no flashing.
For the pit, I envisaged stairs carved into the cliff like sides of the pit - so no space, just rock.
This is going to be 12 walls or so for when the player is on the stairs and another 2 to 4 for when they see it in the back ground.

Quote from: marainein
Stairs down? The perspective in DC means the stairs down are invisible to the viewer, or more correctly would be a thick line.
Do you think it's feasible to draw the downward view as if the viewer had tilted his gaze down (which I think people naturally do when descending stairs)? Maybe the rocks or bricks on the wall next to the stairs would have to be redrawn at an angle. If the stairs aren't visible while descending, it's just going to look like the party is walking on air.

Do you think it would be a good idea to have some sort visual cue that the player is descending? Rocky outcroppings or something on the cliff wall ahead that rise as the player descends?
No need to tilt. :) In one point perspective, standing on the stairs, you can see them going down, though they will be greatly foreshortened.


Offline manikus

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #21 on: March 31, 2017, 02:31:20 PM »
Okay, doing an "on the stairs" image was not too hard. :D

For "facing up stairs", "turned left on stairs", and "turned right on stairs" will take 4 walls each assuming that you want to stick to the three stories format, and it is scalable up, like twelve stories, with no extra walls needed. This is just a stright stair, nothing fancy.
I haven't started on the "facing down the stairs" wall yet.

I am currently using Dinonykos "wya_Stonewall" as the wall to put with the stairs, and the stairs are drawn, but not textured.

Here are two shots - ss01 is on the stairs facing right, and ss02 is on the stairs facing up near the top (this uses an already existing backdrop, but I'll need to make some new ones with a lower horizon line for higher up the stairs like this).

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #22 on: March 31, 2017, 02:38:44 PM »
Nice! I think that works.
 
(I totally forgot about that wall, by the way...)
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Offline manikus

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #23 on: March 31, 2017, 03:09:02 PM »
I dont think i had noticed the wall in a while, either. :D I was going to use the earthen wall, but thought this looked more like a rockrface.

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #24 on: March 31, 2017, 03:09:57 PM »
Nice! Good work with the perspective on those stairs. They look pretty steep, but I guess that's what you need to ascend a standard wall's height in one cell.

Offline marainein

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #25 on: March 31, 2017, 03:11:13 PM »
Alright! Excellent! :icon_cheers:
« Last Edit: March 31, 2017, 03:13:08 PM by marainein »

Offline manikus

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #26 on: March 31, 2017, 03:28:39 PM »
Walls that are 45 degrees are at a 1:1 ratio, while these stairs are at a 69:56 ratio due to DC stretching on the vertical axis.
And you are correct, this is due to onestairs fitting into one cell.

A square viewport will make them look more climable, and a viewport with width larger than heighth will make them look better yet. :D

Offline manikus

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2017, 01:24:59 PM »
I had come up against something with doing the second story of stairs. This won't be news to Dinonykos, but DC is not actualy one point perspective. Of course, Dinonykos and I treat the inner part like one-point perspective.

The attached image shows my dilemma.
If you do one-point perspective for one story of the stairs, you get a particular slope (the green line). If you do the second story, you get a very different slope (cyan line). And if you do two sotries at once, which seems better, but is differnt from the previous two (purple line). You can only imagine that the problem gets exponentially larger when you figure in a third story. ;)

Thoughts?

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #28 on: April 12, 2017, 02:01:27 PM »
Actually, I tried to say something similar with post #8 in this thread...  ;D

My guess is that this issue is not so obvious if you draw real stairs instead of slopes, so I am not too much concerned about it.
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Offline manikus

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Re: Stairway to Hell - Going Down
« Reply #29 on: April 12, 2017, 02:21:51 PM »
Well, if you do it that way, the top step of the first floor blocks the bottome step of the secon floor. You are probably right that no one will notice. I actually thought while posting above that you and I are likely the only two to care about this, and then only in an aceademic sense as this is not our design. ;)

 

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