Author Topic: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...  (Read 9860 times)

Offline hans

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OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« on: March 04, 2013, 09:49:39 PM »
I've been hard pressed to find time to do much of anything UA-ish for two or three months, now, but (hopefully) my schedule will begin easing after this week. 

Even tho I've got more than half-a-dozen projects sitting around "in progress," I've been giving a lot of thought, recently, to an older idea that I've talked about before, but done no work on... 

TSR's Oriental Adventures (and, thus, the OAUA Worldhack) are based mostly on Japanese culture and martial arts.  Conversely, my first mod, a demo, for UA was "Fire and Water" which was mostly Chinese in those respects.  And ever since OAUA came out, with all its wonderful features, I've thought about hacking up a more Chinese version of it. 

The late Brian O'Donnell, God rest his soul, warned me that hacking OAUA's Ckit would probably wreck it, since the changes made to UA's coding were so extreme.  When I said that I was thinking of mostly just changing some names, like for classes and items, though, he thought that might work out okay. 

So, I hope to do just that, and see if I can come up with a workable version to write some Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon - type adventures. 

Choosing good replacement names will be the first order of business. 

"Samurai" is clearly Japanese, for example, along with their swords, the "Katana" and "Wakazashi," so they'll be needing to be changed to something more Chinese, along with many other names. 

After I've chosen replacement names, I'll have to find the right program to change them without messing with the OAUA hack too much... 

I'm thinking about trying Textedit, first, as it has seemed fairly congenial in the past...

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2013, 10:02:26 PM »
The other string editor I have used is "Stred", I think. Not sure if it is quite as congenial.

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2013, 05:40:14 AM »
Cool, right Chinese are a bit different then Japanese. I know lots about their weapons and culture but never played anything that is chinese except an old game with Indiana Jones if i remember correctly though I can't remember the name but I remember driving a very old and big tank from ww1. Anyway here is a link with some Indi Jones adventure, I think that guy is cool and would love to see some FRUA/DC adventuring like that :) for sure http://indianajones.wikia.com/wiki/China

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2013, 11:10:17 PM »
Choosing good replacement names will be the first order of business. 

"Samurai" is clearly Japanese, for example, along with their swords, the "Katana" and "Wakazashi," so they'll be needing to be changed to something more Chinese, along with many other names. 

This topic intrigued me, so I did some internet research for the Chinese equivalent of "Samurai". The closest I could come was "Jidshǐ". One thing led to another and now I have some suggestions.

******** Chinese Names for Medieval Arms and Warriors ********

Jidshǐ (military governor)
D Dāo Hu (big sword society)
Zhung Sh (warrior)
Ji Xīng (knight)
D Xi (noble warrior)
M Shī (priest)
Wū X (wizard)
Do (thief)
Wǔ Sh (literally "Samurai")

Dāo (single edged sabre)
Qiāng (spear)
Gn (staff)
Jin (double edged straight sword)
Jǐ (halberd)
Gē (dagger-axe)
Fu Tao (dual-wielded hook swords)
Biān (chain whip)
Chui (hammer)
Tonfa (baton with a handle)
Li Xīng (meteor hammer)

Kwan Dāo (polearm)
Yan Yu Dāo (polearm)
Shuangshou Dāo (two handed sabre)
Liuye Dāo (broadsword)
Da Dāo (two handed sword)
Yanmao Dāo (goose quill sabre)
Wing Chun (dual wielded butterfly swords)
Qing Bow (horn bow)
Manchu Bow (recurved bow)

Kai (armor)
Guijia (tortoise shell armor)

******** End ********
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Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 02:43:48 AM »
Nice :) yeah those for weapons looks good :) other I hope will fall in place too.

Offline hans

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 02:19:52 PM »
******** Chinese Names for Medieval Arms and Warriors ********

Jidshǐ (military governor)
D Dāo Hu (big sword society)
Zhung Sh (warrior)
Ji Xīng (knight)
D Xi (noble warrior)
M Shī (priest)
Wū X (wizard)
Do (thief)
Wǔ Sh (literally "Samurai")

Dāo (single edged sabre)
Qiāng (spear)
Gn (staff)
Jin (double edged straight sword)
Jǐ (halberd)
Gē (dagger-axe)
Fu Tao (dual-wielded hook swords)
Biān (chain whip)
Chui (hammer)
Tonfa (baton with a handle)
Li Xīng (meteor hammer)

Kwan Dāo (polearm)
Yan Yu Dāo (polearm)
Shuangshou Dāo (two handed sabre)
Liuye Dāo (broadsword)
Da Dāo (two handed sword)
Yanmao Dāo (goose quill sabre)
Wing Chun (dual wielded butterfly swords)
Qing Bow (horn bow)
Manchu Bow (recurved bow)

Kai (armor)
Guijia (tortoise shell armor)

******** End ********
 

Very nice, suggestions, Nol!   ;D 

I'm rather split, myself, tho, on how much Chinese language I should use.  I could either go full out with Chinese names for all classes and items, in which I might use many of your suggestions, or if players would be more comfortable, I might just use a little Chinese, and for the rest just go with English equivalents. 

For example, I could either use the Chinese "jian" or call the same item simply "sword." 

Using a lot of Chinese might cause more than a little confusion, as not only would it all be new and foreign to most players, some same spellings will have different meanings, such as "dao" (saber? thief? polearm?).   

I'm open to feedback on what you potential players & possibly mod-makers out there might prefer...   

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 05:50:03 PM »
Are the strings possibly long enough to include both (as in Nol's list) - that is, the Asian name and the english translation in brackets?

For myself, I would be much more likely to play a game if I can have some idea of what the weapons, classes, etc are, without having to look them up. I would be unlikely to play a game with a lot of untranslated Chinese words. So if I had to choose, I would choose english names.

I should indicate, however, that I am not a person who has a great interest in roleplaying in an oriental setting. My only experience with it is in playing one or two FRUA mods. It may be different for those who already have an interest in roleplaying in a Chinese or oriental setting.

Offline hans

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 06:04:20 PM »
Are the strings possibly long enough to include both (as in Nol's list) - that is, the Asian name and the english translation in brackets?...
 

Because of Brian's warning to me, in my first (who knows if it might be my only) attempt at hacking OAUA's names, my inclination will be to tread as lightly as possible.  So, my thinking is to keep my name lengths equal to or less than their previous space. 

I've started a poll (my first) to see if I can get more input on what folks might prefer...

Offline hans

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2013, 06:22:37 PM »
The other string editor I have used is "Stred", I think. Not sure if it is quite as congenial.
 

Here's how a warning included in the OAUA docs, themselves, words it:

Most of the programs hackers are familiar with through UAShell are simply incompatible with the OA Worldhack due to the extent of CKIT hacks in effect.  For example, the race and class data has been moved, streamlined and generally completely rewritten, meaning programs like HackCKIT and RCEdit are useless for that purpose.  Character files were rewritten to account for all the new classes and to enable us to add the Polymorph event.  Art, of course, you can change, with only the caveat mentioned above regarding wildernesses, dungeons and icons.  If you are intent on doing even more with CKIT, do so at your own risk.

So, HackCKIT & RCEdit are too intrusive.  I've not used Stred.  I may give it try, but since I've used Textedit before, I'll think I'll give it the first crack.  Who knows, though, it might turn out to be impossible to achieve my goal...   :-\

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 01:16:52 AM »
So, HackCKIT & RCEdit are too intrusive.  I've not used Stred.  I may give it try, but since I've used Textedit before, I'll think I'll give it the first crack.  Who knows, though, it might turn out to be impossible to achieve my goal...   :-\

First of all, I voted in your poll for "Mostly Chinese". I think that using the Mandarin names for things in a Chinese mod would help add to the atmosphere. If your party enters a Swordsmith's shop and finds they can buy a Dao, a Shuangshou Dao, a Da Dao, a Yanmao Dao, or a Liuye Dao, they might pick up on the fact that Dao means "Knife", "Sabre", or "Single-Edged Sword".  I agree with you that some of the polearm names, such as Kwan Dao which translates roughly as "General Kwan's Knife" are confusing.  :confused2:

My preference would be to see a mixture of English and Chinese names. Names like "Butterfly Sword", "Meteor Hammer", "Chain Whip", and "Rope Dart" are probably more evocative to an English speaker than their Mandarin equivalents, but "Fighter" and "Wizard" seem boring compared with "Zhuang Shi" and "Wu Xi".

Anyway, here's a Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighteen_Arms_of_Wushu

Finally, I would take Brian at his word: many of the text strings were moved around to make room for new events, rendering most string hacks useless. You should be safe using a hex editor to replace any text string with another one of the same length (or shorter). You would need to change some of the pointers as well if any of your strings are longer than the OAUA defaults.
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Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 03:32:52 AM »
a Swordsmith's shop
Shouldn't that be "a Daosmith's shop"?

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 04:05:40 AM »
Yes, I would love to know the words for Swordsmith and things like that, for anything that is oriental as it gives me more flavor in the game then just usual words. If You want to play Oriental Adventures which are surely different then usual ones but can also be fun in their own way You have to get faimiliar with strange words like Tori or japanese arch wich is a symbol of a holy place http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torii

So for those wordhacks I think a lots of reasearch should be done and make a nice document about it all just for getting into spirit of things as it is not same to play and pass near Torii and not know what is it, or play without even having one at all, and my approach in most things is to know things and learn from it and than to try to make things better.

Sure this takes a lot of effort but for better result it is surely needed by my opinion. For example my country (serbia, but also Yugoslavia as there were more people that were alike) have some traditions that are just different and mostly influenced by Greek tradions (and Roman too). Now It would be also cool to make some Greek-Roman world hack where You could find things like  Maheira or kopis or xiphos or those greek longspears, or hoplon or hoplite armor or gladius or pilum ect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makhaira. And of course it would all look much more authentic if you could know how things were in that periood including names for Blacksmiths as I am sure Swordsmiths in Japanese/Chinese middleage times played important part of their society making those Katanas as very nicely made swords for fighting, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_swordsmithing

Well speaking of my people also I would love to remake slavic traditions and put that in some form of RPG, how those guys lived and what were the customs back then before christianity and after it too. My main interest would be Serbian history but I would also like to expand it on all slavic countries like Russia, Ukraine, Poland, Checoslovakia and Ex Yugoslavian Countires. I have lots of materials about this and I have made a RPG about it though not really good as my idea is. But I hope I will continue to work on it all and make something even better and in English too.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2013, 04:28:21 AM by Rainbower »

Offline hans

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2013, 07:08:13 PM »
Concerning OA's races, Hengeyokai and Spirit Folk I suppose could be replaced by appropriate compounds of "xian."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xian_(Taoism)

I don't know if finding an equivalent to Korobokuru will be so easy.

Offline hans

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2013, 09:03:10 PM »
To follow up:

With races & classes, if necessary, I could translate the Japanese words into English, and (if I go full Chinese) then translate the English word into Chinese. 

I would much prefer, however, to find a good equivalent from Chinese folklore, rather than just do mechanical translations. 

Ideally, I'd like the hack should be usable not only for free Chinese-folklore-based mods, but also for mods set in Kara-Tur, only instead of the Japan-like islands of Kozakura & Wa, the vast, China-like areas of T'u Lung & Shou Lung. 

OA5 "Mad Monkey vs the Dragon Claw" by Jeff Grubb moved into those China-like lands, IIRC, but had to force a lot of OA's Japaniness across the cultural divide.

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: OA -- Japanese to Chinese hack...
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2013, 01:07:28 PM »
Well that is certainly good :D and I am happy that story is continuing as I like playing OA games. I can't say I know much, though I know something and that is enough to keep me really interested but I am still behind with all things FRUA as I am still trying to figure things out :). Anyway hope I will be able to catch up  :laughing3: