Author Topic: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!  (Read 4857 times)

Offline PetrusOctavianus

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FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« on: May 28, 2010, 06:21:19 PM »
I'm in the process of generating a party for the FRUA version of Pool of Radiance and I must say the stats rolled are insane! The stats are supposed to be 3 times D6 which should give a range from 3 to 18. But after having rolled 9 different human fighters the lowest stat was one 11 and I rolled a lot of 18s, which the avarage stat being around 14-15. Seems awfully high and not within the spirit of the AD&D rules.
I don't recall the exact stats from the original versions, but they were certainly not this high.
I can't see any way to change this behaviour in Game Settings.
It's not a big problem, but I do prefer playing with characters with more normal stats, so that Gauntlets of OS and Dex really make a difference.

Uhh...nevermind. When I rolled a Cleric with a Str of 18(48) I realize it must be part of the Hack used for this module.
I'll just do the actual rolling of characters using my Gold Box version.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2010, 06:46:29 PM by PetrusOctavianus »

Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2010, 04:48:25 AM »
You could also roll actual d6 dice and then modify your FRUA stats accordingly. ;)

(But keep in mind that in PnP games the DM can adjust the difficulty and roleplay to the character stats while a FRUA design remains the same no matter how hard you are on your characters. If it's created with extremely heroic characters in mind, giving your characters low stats might not necessarily result in more fun for you.)
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 04:57:47 AM by Olivier Leroux »

Offline Ray

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2010, 10:42:02 AM »

Yeah, all of the Realm games allow percentile Strength.  It was an old house rule, since the idea of "only fighters can be that strong" never made much sense.  It's easier to be able to do it and reduce it in the character generator if you prefer more old school, than to not be allowed percentile Strength in the character generator and have to hack the character to get it.

I usually use randomized stats for my characters when I playtest, so ensure that "normal" characters can survive the game. 



Offline PetrusOctavianus

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2010, 11:14:05 AM »
Ray, speaking of the The Realm games, when buying gear for my characters I've noticed there is a difference in weapon selection (never seen a Whip in Gold Box or FRUA games, for example) and weapon stats.
Is there a list of the The Realm weapons and their stats somewhere?

As for rolling characters, I've always followed the same "ritual" when creating Gold Box, FRUA and Icewind Dale characters - roll one of each possible combination of race, class, gender and alignment and then chooses the best ones. For the Forgotten Realms games that means only human characters, with the exception of Dwarf and Half-Elf Fighter/Thieves.
So with the Gold Box and default FRUA character generation I end up characters with both strengths and weaknesses. In my current game only two characters rolled 18 INT, none of them were mages and only one of them - a thief - could be dual classed. The 18 INT is of course long time investement so that the character will eventually be able to cast lvl 9 spells.
Meybe I'm weird, but I think it's more fun with characters with bot strengths and weaknesses, than all characters with 18 STR and DEX and 16-18 CON.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 11:43:16 AM by PetrusOctavianus »

Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2010, 11:32:12 AM »
Personally I think weaknesses are a lot of fun to roleplay but being handicapped by a random bad roll in a single player computer game that's based on combat efficiency (and not at all on roleplay) is not that funny. There's also the option to alter the difficulty level of UA, I think that's more of a challenge than playing with inefficient characters and watching them miss their targets round after round.

But I don't mean to tell you how to do it, if you enjoy the game that way go ahead and do it. There's no "weird", just different perspectives and preferences. :)

Offline DesertScrb

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2010, 01:23:19 PM »
Is there a list of the The Realm weapons and their stats somewhere?

I think there's a newsletter article which describes all the Realm items, but I can't recall which newsletter.  Try the UANL archives on Rosedragon.

Offline Ray

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2010, 02:54:00 PM »
Is there a list of the The Realm weapons and their stats somewhere?

I think there's a newsletter article which describes all the Realm items, but I can't recall which newsletter.  Try the UANL archives on Rosedragon.


I'm pretty sure that's where it is, but I didn't find it earlier when I was poking around for the old Pool of Radiance stuff.  I do know that someone went through the trouble of compiling all of that a few years back.  I'm horrible in not remembering who did it...I'm really sorry, because what I do remember is thinking that a lot of work went into that list! 


Offline Ray

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2010, 02:55:48 PM »
As for rolling characters, I've always followed the same "ritual" when creating Gold Box, FRUA and Icewind Dale characters - roll one of each possible combination of race, class, gender and alignment and then chooses the best ones. For the Forgotten Realms games that means only human characters, with the exception of Dwarf and Half-Elf Fighter/Thieves.
So with the Gold Box and default FRUA character generation I end up characters with both strengths and weaknesses. In my current game only two characters rolled 18 INT, none of them were mages and only one of them - a thief - could be dual classed. The 18 INT is of course long time investement so that the character will eventually be able to cast lvl 9 spells.
Meybe I'm weird, but I think it's more fun with characters with bot strengths and weaknesses, than all characters with 18 STR and DEX and 16-18 CON.

That's a pretty cool system.  I tend to have an approach that tailor's just a little more to the class I picked.  I know I want a wizard, for instance, so I Re-Roll until I get an Intelligence 18 (like you said, if I play to eighteenth level, I want to make sure I can cast that Meteor Swarm!), and then keep everything else as it appears.  That has led to some interesting characters, at least a few of which made their way into some stories I've written over the years!


Offline ProphetSword

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2010, 03:03:41 PM »
The reason for the stats is probably so that every character can meet the minimum requirements of their class.  In 1st Edition Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, most standard classes needed at least a 9 in their primary attribute.  In some of the advanced classes (like Ranger and Paladin), they needed even higher scores.

Since you pick your class *before* you roll your attributes, you will never find a Paladin with a Charisma score of less than 17, as it's required by the game.

In order to make this happen with consistency, the designers of the system probably set the system to roll with something like 5d6, ignore the lowest two.  Or, roll a 1d10 and add 10, up to the max allowed for the race (giving a range of 11-20).  And on certain scores (like the Paladin Charisma), they assigned a lower set of numbers (1d2 + 16, for example).

Just guesses on my part, mind you.

EDIT:
After a bit of playing around, the lowest score I was able to generate in FRUA was an 8.  This leads me to believe that they probably used something like the 5d6, ignore the lowest two rolls option that I suggested above.  This will generally give you scores that are around 13+.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2010, 03:07:47 PM by ProphetSword »
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Offline Kaz-Keith

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2010, 03:23:51 PM »
I'm pretty sure that's where it is, but I didn't find it earlier when I was poking around for the old Pool of Radiance stuff.  I do know that someone went through the trouble of compiling all of that a few years back.  I'm horrible in not remembering who did it...I'm really sorry, because what I do remember is thinking that a lot of work went into that list!

Yep.  Long times ago:  http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/uanews/uanl28/tc-mark1.htm

Basing a game off game00.dsn means I've had to glance at this a time or thirty.

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2010, 03:27:36 PM »
By default, FRUA rolls 3d6 6 times for each ability score and keeps the highest of the 6 rolls.

You will almost never roll a 3, because the odds of that happening are (1/6)^18.

On the other hand, you will get lots of 18's.

FRUA also adds one to every ability score except Wisdom, which explains why it is so much harder to get a 18 WIS for your Cleric than it is to get an 18 INT for your Mage or an 18 CON for your Fighter.
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Offline Nol Drek

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2010, 03:36:54 PM »
In order to make this happen with consistency, the designers of the system probably set the system to roll with something like 5d6, ignore the lowest two.  Or, roll a 1d10 and add 10, up to the max allowed for the race (giving a range of 11-20).  And on certain scores (like the Paladin Charisma), they assigned a lower set of numbers (1d2 + 16, for example).

No.

FRUA rolls 3d6 6 times for each ability and keeps the highest of the 6 rolls.

FRUA then adds one point to every score except Wisdom.

The odds of getting an 18 are 24/216 = 1/9 for all stats except Wisdom, which has a 6/216 = 1/36 chance to roll an 18.

Finally, FRUA adjusts your rolls to be within the Race/Class limits.
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Offline Ray

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2010, 03:39:27 PM »
Yep.  Long times ago:  http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/uanews/uanl28/tc-mark1.htm

Basing a game off game00.dsn means I've had to glance at this a time or thirty.


THANKS, Keith!!!

And there's a great warning note about those rings of spell storing on that page that I'd forgotten!  And a big thanks to Mark Hatfield, with apologies for my omission of memory!   :-[


On a side note, I played Pool of Radiance one time using the "kill your NPCs and take their stuff" approach.  Hey, they were almost all evil, anyway, right.  I felt actual guilt after doing it...and never did it again...

All these years later, I can finally look back on it and  :D

Offline Ray

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2010, 03:40:30 PM »

That's amazing, Nol...You have to wonder which guy sitting around SSI one day said to a room full of developers, "Okay, this is how we're going to determine stats..."   ;)

Offline Kaz-Keith

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Re: FRUA vs Gold Box - FRUA rolled stats are insane!
« Reply #14 on: May 29, 2010, 04:07:09 PM »
That's amazing, Nol...You have to wonder which guy sitting around SSI one day said to a room full of developers, "Okay, this is how we're going to determine stats..."   ;)

...to which another voiced, "Wait- this is how we're going to determine stats?"

To which the door opened, head poked in and informed group that SSI wanted the character generation updates asap.  Ah the good ol' days of gaming, where every non-physical stat was a dump stat, and character generation meant human or elf.  *sigh*


 

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