Poll

Should Cavaliers, as corrected in Dragon #148, be added to default DC?

Yes.
4 (100%)
No.
0 (0%)
Don't care, won't use.
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closes: December 30, 2017, 12:51:11 PM

Author Topic: Cavaliers  (Read 158 times)

Offline manikus

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Cavaliers
« on: December 05, 2017, 12:51:11 PM »
For anyone who doesn't know, Cavaliers were a new class added in the Unearthed Arcana book. I had always thought to add them at some point, but they were last on my list because they are the most broken class, in my opinion (even more than Monk and barbarian). However, I came across teh article for the corrected Cavalier and suddenly they seem like a playable class.

I am going to make them because I need them for the Pantheons project I am working on, and if no where else they will be released as part of that project. But, I can add them to default DC.

What are the changes? A lot. They lose all of their quasi-magical abilities - no immune to fear aura, no bonus against illusions. They loose the extra hit points aboe what the Fighter gets. There are other things, mostly not applicable to DC. Read the article if you are interested (Dragon #148, p30).

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2017, 08:05:14 PM »
I vote yes for Cavaliers. I like that they are medieval knights without the Divine powers of Paladins.
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Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2017, 02:18:14 AM »
If you are preparing them anyway, so that it is not that much effort you to include them in default DC, I'd say yes. I guess from your post and from what I quickly read that most specialties of cavaliers cannot be emulated in DC anyway (like being specialists in fighting on horses), but more classes are always nice.
Adding this class may be particularly interesting if somebody would like to make a low-fantasy adventure.
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Offline manikus

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2017, 12:48:44 PM »
Adding it to default DC is no problem for me whatsoever. ;) I ask because I'm not going to do the Cavalier form Unearthed Arcana.

I also like the idea of knights in DC. :D And Cavaliers have a lot more going for them than just horseback advantages - like immunity to fear, more attacks per round with certain weapons, etc. Plus, I can conceive of someone coming up with mounted combat - actually, the main difficulty is determining if damage against the Cavalier goes to them or their mount, and if their mount gets it's own attacks in combat (both of which I am fairly sure we can script if we wanted to).

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2017, 11:28:10 AM »
Yes :). Well, I never played cavalier, and I thought that he is ok the way it was, but I trust that You guys will do it ok. Definitely looking forward to play it.

Offline Mechanaut

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #5 on: December 07, 2017, 11:42:28 AM »
Quote
Should Cavaliers, as corrected in Dragon #148, be added to default DC?
How does one read Dragon #148?
(The closest issue I've got is Dragon #142  :P )

**Interestingly though... Issue #142 lists an AD&D 2e preview, that mentions Cavaliers & Barbarians as being removed because they can be roleplayed with Paladin & Ranger classes.

The Krynn games do have knights—are those based on Cavaliers? I really liked the Knight's leadership ability in those games. Could that make it into DC?
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 11:49:49 AM by Mechanaut »

Offline manikus

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2017, 12:51:40 PM »
Quote
Should Cavaliers, as corrected in Dragon #148, be added to default DC?
How does one read Dragon #148?
(The closest issue I've got is Dragon #142  :P )

**Interestingly though... Issue #142 lists an AD&D 2e preview, that mentions Cavaliers & Barbarians as being removed because they can be roleplayed with Paladin & Ranger classes.

The Krynn games do have knights—are those based on Cavaliers? I really liked the Knight's leadership ability in those games. Could that make it into DC?

https://annarchive.com/files/Drmg148.pdf

I don't know enough about how the knights of Krynn work to tell you if they are the same or not.
At one point, Steve McDonald was going to work on a Dragonlance conversion of DC, but I haven't seen any mention of this in a while. If you want to start a thread asking for that ability - I guess a script/feature request - I would be happy to take a look and see if I can figure it out. :)

Offline Mechanaut

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2017, 01:35:59 PM »
In the fights where soldiers joined the player's side against their enemies. If the party had a knight (which they probably did), then the knight's leadership ability might be sufficient to put those trained guardsmen under their command; meaning that the player then controls each soldier as an additional party member (with its own turn) for the duration of that encounter. (AFAIK) This was not guaranteed/ or it depended upon the knight's leadership level.

Presumably they would otherwise fight like regular (uncontrollable) NPCs; though that never once happened for me during the game. I did have three knights.

*Thanks for the link.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2017, 01:42:18 PM by Mechanaut »

Offline manikus

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2017, 01:40:44 PM »
In practice, when a combat encounter began, in certain fights there could be soldiers that joined the player's side against their enemies. If the party had a knight (which they probably did), then the knight's leadership ability might be sufficient to put those trained guardsmen under their command; meaning that the player then controls each soldier as an additional party member (with its own turn) for the duration of that encounter. (AFAIK) This was not guaranteed/ or it depended upon the knight's leadership level.

*Thanks for the link.

This sounds like the effect the paladin has in combat. This is scripted, so it can be adapted to work with any class.

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2017, 05:06:52 PM »
Wow, thanks for the link  8)

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2017, 05:26:41 AM »
At one point, Steve McDonald was going to work on a Dragonlance conversion of DC, but I haven't seen any mention of this in a while. If you want to start a thread asking for that ability - I guess a script/feature request - I would be happy to take a look and see if I can figure it out. :)

I believe to remember Steve decided to do that project in FRUA... But his layout for the DC version looked great!
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Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2017, 07:36:00 AM »
Thanks, yes. The FRUA version is still progressing (very) slowly (and is much further along than the DC version was). The DC version is currently on hold, but if I ever finish the FRUA version then I will return to it. When I was last working on the DC version, database and script editing was at a more primitive stage (no criticism intended; just observing that it has moved forward since then) and I think I would probably need to pretty well re-start the scripting and database changes, starting from the latest version of the DC databases and default scripts.

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2017, 02:24:09 PM »
Finishing things is what I need to work on, but yeah starting smaller might be good idea. I was thinking of restarting my own but will keep on working on it and maybe will try one more GH.

Anyway I would like to see DC DL mod and would offer my help if it is going to happen :) Steve is really good at it I think and I probably could learn something. But I better start working on my own :D

Offline manikus

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Re: Cavaliers
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2017, 01:23:56 PM »
Thanks, yes. The FRUA version is still progressing (very) slowly (and is much further along than the DC version was). The DC version is currently on hold, but if I ever finish the FRUA version then I will return to it. When I was last working on the DC version, database and script editing was at a more primitive stage (no criticism intended; just observing that it has moved forward since then) and I think I would probably need to pretty well re-start the scripting and database changes, starting from the latest version of the DC databases and default scripts.

Hi, Steve. :D

Depending on how long ago you were last working on your DC project, you may have to significantly update your databases. I have several pet projects that I have had to restart a number of times because it is often easier to do it that way than to try and cath all of the changes. Interestingly, this doesn't apply as much to the special abilities database, as we far more often than not are adding to the SA database instead of changing the way it works.

 

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