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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by hans on Today at 02:47:30 PM »
Star Wars: The Last Jedi has been the most divisive Star Wars movie ever.
 

I said that at the beginning of this thread based on these findings: 

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/18/star-wars-most-divisive-movie-last-jedi-phantom-menace/
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Here's an interesting article that I found eye-opening...

http://mashable.com/2017/12/19/last-jedi-empire-strikes-back-haters/

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Module Reviews / Re: REVIEW: Game04: The Lost City (by Ray Dyer)
« Last post by PetrusOctavianus on January 20, 2018, 10:38:07 PM »
Playing the Westlands campaign of the Realms this is by far the largest module so far, about as big as the five previous ones put together.

I mostly agree with the reviews above.

Artwork was of variable quality.

The first part - the Pyramid - had excellent atmosphere and level design.

The second part - the caves under the Pyramid -  was the weakest part, with routine level design and not much of a monster "ecology". It felt a bit like walking around a zoo and opening the cages.

Things picked up once reaching the Lost City proper, and combatwise this last part was definitely the best part of the module, with some epic fights.

All in all another excellent Realms module, but more varied in quality and mood than the others I've played so far.
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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by ProphetSword on January 20, 2018, 07:31:40 PM »
We are probably in a similar boat there. I was also riveted by the scenes you mentioned. While I wasn’t completely underwhelmed by the ongoing space chase, I found the whole casino scene slow and pointless, even though I liked both Finn and Rose.


While I was okay with Poe being reckless, the lack of consequences kind of bugged me.
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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by hans on January 20, 2018, 07:10:39 PM »
I also want to point out that I understand why people may have disliked this movie or had issues with it.  I have my own issues with it.  It isn't my favorite movie in the series by a long shot.  I don't agree with the critics who claim it's as good as "The Empire Strikes Back," which is, to me, the best of the films.  But I also consider two other Star Wars movies as much worse than "The Last Jedi," so in my mind, it's not the worst either.

I enjoyed it in the theater and got my money's worth out of it.  Whether it stands the test of time will be determined when I buy it on Blu-Ray and watch it a few more times.
 

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm split on the movie, myself. 

I found all the scenes containing Luke, Rey, or Kylo to be riveting (even if I would never have written Luke like that).  The other half of the movie, outside of a few of nice battle scenes, I found entirely underwhelming --providing the least amount of fun I've ever had at a Star Wars film. 

It was a real Jekyll & Hyde of a movie for me.   :-\  "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times..."

On the plus side was the amazing performance of Mark Hamill.  He was brilliant.  He took an extremely challenging and complex role and gave it captivating life.  Hands down for me it was the best performance ever in a Star Wars film. 

Alec Guinness was nominated for a Best Actor in a Supporting Role for the original Star Wars in 1978.  Accomplished as that was, IMO, Mark Hamill's performance dwarfs that of his onscreen mentor.   
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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by ProphetSword on January 20, 2018, 05:29:51 PM »
Here's a decent article where someone discusses and defends some of the more criticized moments from the movie:

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-wars/269804/star-wars-the-last-jedi-exploring-the-most-heavily-criticized-moments-in-the-movie
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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by hans on January 20, 2018, 01:50:46 PM »
I welcome opposing viewpoints.  I just felt someone needs to answer some of these.
 

I compiled the list precisely to stimulate discussions.   :) 

Here's two cents of my own:

One of the most often cited moments among fan-critics is this one:

Luke was about to murder his nephew in his sleep!!!, even though he did stop himself.

I believe that they are looking upon it in general terms, that Ben might turn to the Dark Side.  But what if the moment contained something more specific...? 

What if Luke was given a glimpse of the future, --the future in which Kylo Ren would kill his own father --Luke's best friend, brother-in-law, Han Solo...?

What if it was the virtual experiencing of that precise moment in the future that stirred Luke's battle-honed reflexes to ignite his lightsaber --to act as if his best friend was at that very moment in peril of his life...? 

IMO, that would make Luke's actions more understandable, and so I've had less problems with that sequence than many of the other fans. 

However, there is another criticism that I neglected to include on the list, that:

It was creepy of Luke to approach Ben in his sleep like that, in the first place. 


They might have a point there, particularly how the scene was shot. 

Some darker theorists point out that we only have Luke's word for his version of the incident...  :icon_pale:
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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by ProphetSword on January 20, 2018, 12:16:25 PM »
I also want to point out that I understand why people may have disliked this movie or had issues with it.  I have my own issues with it.  It isn't my favorite movie in the series by a long shot.  I don't agree with the critics who claim it's as good as "The Empire Strikes Back," which is, to me, the best of the films.  But I also consider two other Star Wars movies as much worse than "The Last Jedi," so in my mind, it's not the worst either.

I enjoyed it in the theater and got my money's worth out of it.  Whether it stands the test of time will be determined when I buy it on Blu-Ray and watch it a few more times.
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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by hans on January 20, 2018, 11:40:12 AM »
More...
The movie was too long.

Opinion.
 

For the sake of those in the bleachers... (and particularly those whose bladders may have burst during this 2 hr 32 min movie...)  ;)

Noting that an argument is purely opinion does not invalidate it as a criticism.  Most published reviews by professional critics are nothing but opinion.  The Academy Award for Best Movie is determined through a consensus of opinion.   

What ProphetSword is pointing out is that this type of criticism is based on entirely subjective criteria.  Wholly matters of personal taste and preferences. 

A view which is entirely 100% subjective cannot be wrong. 
But a contrary viewpoint which is likewise 100% subjective also cannot be wrong.     
Thus an impasse.
Therefore such an "opinion" is a flimsy argument that cannot prove an objective point.

If you think The Last Jedi was too long, you are not wrong to think so. 
But if I like it long, I am likewise not wrong. 
No yardage gained, no yardage lost.

Obi-Wan: "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." (Return of the Jedi)
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General Discussion / Re: Big List of THE LAST JEDI Criticisms (Spoilers)
« Last post by ProphetSword on January 20, 2018, 11:19:50 AM »
And a few more to finish it off:

If the entire Resistance fits in the Millennium Falcon, maybe it's time to call it quits.

Rebellions often start with just a handful of people.  Calling it quits means everyone that died did so for nothing.


Every victory Luke had in the original trilogy seems undone or has unravelled. 


I didn't get this at all.  Luke recognized that the Jedi were flawed.  This was revealed in the prequels.  It's why the Jedi couldn't see the corruption growing from within their own ranks.  They felt they had total dominion over the Force, but the Force belongs to everyone.   Luke's victories aren't undone; because he brought balance back to the Force.  His work is done.  And maybe he was never meant to continue the Jedi.


The entire original trilogy is made to seem pointless.

What?  How?


Anti-male, because all the women are morally perfect but all the guys hugely flawed.


Captain Phasma sure seemed morally perfect.


Anti-male, because all the males must be schooled by the morally superior women.

Sure.  ::)


It eroded the good vs evil themes of the Force and all the previous films.

People using the Force can still do both good or evil.  Those themes still exist.



If aspiring to the light side means and equal and opposite growth in the dark side, then better for everyone to stay comfortably gray.  It's an excuse for moral compromise and ambiguity and a helluva poor lesson to teach the next generation of Star Wars kids
.

Star Wars already taught this lesson, though, through six movies.  The fact that someone needed to bring balance to the Force, for example, shows that the Force was always supposed to be this way.  At one time, the Sith ruled the universe, then the Jedi.  Then, all was balanced, and their kind fell away for new champions of both good and evil to rise.



I welcome opposing viewpoints.  I just felt someone needs to answer some of these.
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