Author Topic: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo  (Read 1763 times)

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #30 on: September 08, 2016, 11:53:36 AM »
I assume that the tabs always said 1-16, also in pre 0.914-versions, but that at the same time the "internal" numbering was 0-15 and so on. I am quite sure that in the helping file which came with 0.914, it was explained this way (that walls start with 0). Unfortunately, I cannot check this on this computer.

I suggest to ask Manikus for his opinion here... :) I would be fine if you just renamed the tabs, if this is the easiest way. And, in opposite to the level numbers, I even think that there is some logic in numbering the walls starting with 0, because "wall 0" is reserved for the transparent, unblocked "non-wall". So, the "real" walls would indeed start with 1 then.
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Offline manikus

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2016, 01:14:03 PM »
For as long as there have been tabs in the wall editor, they have started with "1". I can alos confirm that in .914 the internal numbering began with "0".  I think in .914 the internal number for everything started with "0". The first big change was the internal number for levels starting at "1" Then lots othings got renumbered.

Do the internal wall numbers not begin with "0"? My documentation says that they do. I think I am not understanding the issue. Slot 3, for example, in .914 and 2.52 should be the same thing.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #32 on: September 08, 2016, 01:28:37 PM »
I agree that things did not change pre/post 0.914.

There is no technical problem.  It is a user interface
problem.  The user sees wall number one in the editor
and is expected to write "0" in the script.  Many of us
are comfortable converting from index <-> ordinal.
But I thought it would be better to use one or the
other consistently.  If possible to do it easily.

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #33 on: September 08, 2016, 01:32:09 PM »
I agree, as written above - it confused me in the beginning, and sometimes it still does... :D The question is if the tabs should be changed to 0-15, 16-31 etc. instead of 1-16, 17-32? I personally would appreciate it.
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New: THE AMBASSADOR'S LETTER, my contribution to the 7-day-challenge.
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Offline manikus

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #34 on: September 08, 2016, 01:48:36 PM »
If we are talking about changing the internal numbers to start with 1 because we already did that with some, we should discuss this further, because several things are going to need to be fixed. But, if we're just discussing changing the the starting number for all of the various tabs, then I say go with the majority opinioin on this. I have no opinion on this second issue - I always think of them as tab 1, tab 2, etc and don't really pay attention to the number value listed on them other than to interpret it as tab 1 or tab 2, etc.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #35 on: September 08, 2016, 04:41:05 PM »
Quote
changing the internal numbers to start with 1

The problem with that is that existing programs use the
numbers starting at zero.  I think it would be better to
change the displayed numbers to begin at zero to agree
with existing programs.  I don't know of any place these
numbers are used except to set walls/blockage.

Oh, dear.....What numbers are written to export files?
I'll have to check this unless someone knows.  The numbers
in the export files should agree with the numbers displayed
by the editor!

Offline manikus

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #36 on: September 08, 2016, 05:12:48 PM »
If internal numbers and export numbers agree (fingers crossed), then the solution is to change the numbers displayed on the tabs.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #37 on: September 08, 2016, 05:13:14 PM »
Bad news....the export numbers the walls 1-16.


Offline manikus

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #38 on: September 08, 2016, 05:34:31 PM »
That's not good. When it imports, I assume the "1" in the export goes into walls slot 1 instead of 0.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2016, 06:24:01 PM »
I believe that the export/import work OK.  The Import is
consistent with the export.  When I export the design and
import it again, nothing changes that I can see.  Also, I can
export level 1 and then import it as level 2 and I see two
identical levels.

It would seem that the numbering system 1 - 16 is pretty
well established.  I am going to remove engine version 2.52
from my website because it uses 0-15 for the two functions
that set wall numbers.  Until we decide what is going to happen.

1)
We could simply decide to document this feature.  Scripts and
Logic Block manipulations must use the index of the wall slot (0)
rather than the ordinal (1).

2)
We could change the engine to use the ordinal (1) for the two
functions that manipulate walls.  We would do our best to provide
a way for Dinonykos to convert his design (and anyone else who comes
along with the same problem).

3)
We could change the engine to allow the designer to specify
whether he would prefer to use the index or ordinal.  Ordinal
would be default.  This might be specified by defining a
Global Attribute named "Use Wall Index". (any better names?) 
Menu:   Global/Global Settings/Global Attributes
This would apply to Level ASLs and to the GPDL function $SetWall.
This would be relatively simple for me to do under the
circumstances that I have to do something.

I think I prefer 3).  Discussion?

Where are these documented?  Can they be updated?

Offline manikus

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2016, 06:43:32 PM »
1 or 3, whichever you prefer.

Documentation is here, about 3/4 of the way down the page.
http://manikus.reonis.com/Help/SASpecialAbilitiesScripts.html

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2016, 11:57:37 PM »
Yes, 1 or 3. But maybe it would be good to make a poll?
Find four contributions to the Pre-Generated Character Mini-Module Design Contest on my homepage.
New: THE AMBASSADOR'S LETTER, my contribution to the 7-day-challenge.
DINONYKOS DUNGEON CRAFT DESIGN HOMEPAGE

Offline manikus

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2016, 12:26:32 PM »
Yes, 1 or 3. But maybe it would be good to make a poll?

No poll. Paul and I have a say, and you (Dinonykkos) have a say because you have used this feature. But if noone else has used this feature this really won't affect them. I do want to hear from anyone who has already used this in an old design.

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #43 on: September 09, 2016, 12:38:28 PM »
Great, then I can return to topic and show how the 2nd comic page turned out in the end... :D
Find four contributions to the Pre-Generated Character Mini-Module Design Contest on my homepage.
New: THE AMBASSADOR'S LETTER, my contribution to the 7-day-challenge.
DINONYKOS DUNGEON CRAFT DESIGN HOMEPAGE

Offline manikus

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Re: Hide & Seek - Mini Games in Dungeon Craft Demo
« Reply #44 on: September 09, 2016, 12:44:33 PM »
The 2nd page looks great. I know that you do the mini comics for your designs. Have you thought about doing a comic book series? Independent of the games, of course.

 

anything