Author Topic: Frustrating Editor Issues...  (Read 1341 times)

Offline Draugr

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Frustrating Editor Issues...
« on: October 08, 2015, 08:24:20 PM »
OK, I had a big message typed up because my events were randomly changing data in them. I couldn't figure out the problem at all. I was just about at wits end. Then before I posted the long message, I decided to try one more time. This time I FOUND the exact CAUSE of the ISSUE!

So, hopefully I can explain it and some of you here with more experience can assist me, because right now I feel totally defeated with all the time I now wasted.

I have a random encounter event that has up to 7 random encounters. I finish the first random encounter chain and it looks something like this.

Random Event
    Random Chain 1: Encounter Event
                                      Combat Chain: Combat  (151)
   

There is quite a bit more to he event, but that is all that is needed to explain the issue.

I then instead of typing the entire chain process again for random chain 2, I simply copy and paste Random Chain 1 into Random Chain 2. I then go in and change the Encounter small pic and text.

Next, I go in to the Combat Chain and add the monsters for the 2nd Random Encounter. I then save and test, but something is wrong. While the randomly chosen 2nd Encounter shows the correct small pic and text for the Kobolds, when the Combat Chain executes, it has the Goblins on the battlefield from Random Chain 1. WTF is going on? Believe me this is a very brief explanation. I spent hours and hours designing these events which have a lot more to them than just the Encounter and Combat chain events.

So, I go back and look, this is what I see.

Random Event
    Random Chain 1: Encounter Event
                                      Combat Chain: Combat  (151)

     Random Chain 2: Encounter Event
                                      Combat Chain: Combat  (151)

After going crazy trying to figure out the issue, it is there staring me in the face. (151) I realized that must be the ID number for that particular Combat Chain, now there are two of them, so when I change the data in one, I guess it saves to both which ruins the second combat chain because it now matches the first.

This has got to be a bug, otherwise, why bother with a COPY/PASTE option if you can't copy an event and then paste it either within the current event to hasten up the repetitive task of writing 7 Random Encounter events, or to paste it in another space on the map to negate the need to type that whole BIG event over again each time you wish to re-use it? COPY/PASTE has got to be there for time saving, write one event, copy it to other cells then change the internal data as necessary and you cut down event writing time by 80% or so. Doing this should also automatically change the chain IDs to avoid these type of issues. Sadly, this doesn't seem to work because when you do this the event and chain IDs in the copies all remain the same and when you change the data for one, it changes them for all. Time saving negated and actually multiplied because of the time you spend pulling your hair out trying to figure out what is going on. Is it me, or is it a bug, etc...

Please someone tell me this is a bug and not how the program is supposed to operate. If this is actually normal and how the program is supposed to work, then please tell me how I can write a big event, then re-use it elsewhere in the map without having to type it all up each time I need it?

Sorry for the long post, but believe me this is the second in a row, the first I deleted before posting because I noticed the potential bug in the chain ID and so had better information on the cause of this issue..

John

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2015, 08:48:01 PM »
If you can cause two references to the same event ID
then you have discovered a bug.  Things will get worse
when you delete one of them!!!!!  If this is in a design that
you want to save, please leave both references as they
are for now.  I'll see what went wrong and let you know
how to safely correct the problem.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 08:49:56 PM by Paul R. Stevens »

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2015, 09:01:56 PM »
I just tried this using editor version 2.26.
It fails exactly as you describe.
Thanks....I'll be back.  Promise.

Offline Draugr

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2015, 09:02:20 PM »
Thank you.

 I was so disappointed because my design is moving along well, and I am actually enjoying the development. Then this issue popped up and I couldn't figure out what was going on until hours later when I noticed the IDs.

Thanks Again
John

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2015, 10:29:13 PM »
Oh, my God.

From what I can see, the Copy/Paste was never meant to
work.  It appears to totally ignore any chained events other
than the "Normal Chain".  And I don't yet see how even that
can work.

If we want Copy/Paste to work in anything like a reasonable
way, I am going to have to go into development mode for
an extended period.

Offline Draugr

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2015, 10:36:07 PM »
Darn. So that means we will have to type up each event each time we need to use it in a level, module, etc...?

Without copy and paste designing large complex events will be too tedious. A shame as I was so happy to get  this design completed so I could play it and make it available to the rest of the community.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 11:41:29 PM by Draugr »

Offline marainein

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2015, 10:49:59 PM »
I don't fully understand the editor, but - is it possible to have an event jump to another event on a different part of the tree (in other words, can an event node have multiple parents)? So the events behave less like a tree structure and more like a mesh/web/programming language structure?

Offline Draugr

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2015, 06:48:43 AM »
Paul,

I just wanted to ask this question so I know whether to continue working on other elements of my module, or if I should abandon the development due to that Copy and Paste issue.

Do you know if you will go into "development mode for an extended period" as you mention above? I understand if the answer is no, or not anytime soon. I just would like to know what I should do with my module development.

Thanks for all your help.
John

PS: Would a possible work around / temporary fix be to allow the designer to change the reference numbers for each chain in an event? If that can be done as a temporary resolution then we can manually change the reference numbers and keep a notepad at our side to record which reference numbers we have previously used and which numbers we haven't. I guess that might be one temporary resolution if it is possible.

Also, can I simply delete the events in my module except the originals of each copied event and not have problems? I'd rather delete the duplicates than leave them in the module for now. Please let me know.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2015, 06:53:00 AM by Draugr »

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2015, 09:44:06 AM »
I was a bit hasty with my Copy/Paste analysis.
I found a perfectly functional Paste code buried in
an overridden function.  Unfortunately, the 'Encounter'
event was broken when attempting Paste.  This is fixed
in Editor version 2.27

http://dianneandpaul.net/UAF/DungeonCraftEditor_227.zip

Now, what to do with designs that have used this feature
to Copy/Paste an Encounter event with 'fight', 'talk', or
'escape' chains.  The best idea is to restore a level before
pasting such an event.  But that might cause you to have
to repeat an excessive amount of work.  If restoring a
level to a previous version is not reasonable, let me know
and we will try to work something out.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2015, 09:52:36 AM »
Quote
possible to have an event jump to another event on a different part of the tree

No.  But I think it is possible to jump to an event tree
in an arbitrary cell of the dungeon.  So by splitting your
event chain up and putting the parts into unused cells,
you can accomplish the same thing.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2015, 09:56:52 AM »
Quote
can I simply delete the events in my module except the originals of each copied event

No, no, no.  There is only one copy of each.  Deleting the
second will delete the first without removing the references
to the first.  Ouch.

If reasonable, we really should restore the level from a
version prior to such errors.  If that is not reasonable,
we need to work out an alternative.

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2015, 10:04:29 AM »
Quote
can I simply delete the events in my module except the originals of each copied event

What happens if Draugr copies and pastes the "doubled" events in the updated version of the editor - won't they be assigned with new numbers? And could he afterwards delete the old events?




Quote
possible to have an event jump to another event on a different part of the tree

No.  But I think it is possible to jump to an event tree
in an arbitrary cell of the dungeon.  So by splitting your
event chain up and putting the parts into unused cells,
you can accomplish the same thing.

The disadvantage of this approach is that in the "regular" version of the game, the coordinates are shown. You can either hide this via big pics, or by changing the config-file that way that the coordinates are not shown. Alternatively, you could use another level, but same coordinates.

Lastly, you can also teleport to the same square where the party is standing, but use variables or quests to get to a different branch of the event tree. This approach is useful for many things, but you have to be careful not to trap the player in an infinite loop...
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Offline Draugr

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2015, 11:25:34 AM »
OK, not sure if this helps any, or at least makes it easier for me to restart.

I'm fine with losing all the events I made so far. I can write down the basics of each then re-enter them from scratch, then use COPY/PASTE from that point on. My biggest thing is that the dungeon (level) I built so far is quite big and I don't want to have to draw the map again. The events I can simply rebuild. So, if I was to delete all the events so far on a level, then save the design, could I then begin to safely write and copy and paste new events?

Also, Dinonykos mentioned an idea, and perhaps that might be a possible way to fix previously entered events.

Quote
What happens if Draugr copies and pastes the "doubled" events in the updated version of the editor - won't they be assigned with new numbers? And could he afterwards delete the old events?

That sounds like a possible way to resolve the current events. Let us know if that may be a way to make this work.

Thanks,
John

Offline ProphetSword

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2015, 12:09:42 PM »
I'm fine with losing all the events I made so far. I can write down the basics of each then re-enter them from scratch, then use COPY/PASTE from that point on. My biggest thing is that the dungeon (level) I built so far is quite big and I don't want to have to draw the map again. The events I can simply rebuild. So, if I was to delete all the events so far on a level, then save the design, could I then begin to safely write and copy and paste new events?

If you're going to delete all events on the level, why not just delete the events that have been broken by the COPY/PASTE bug and leave the rest alone?  Did you copy and paste every event in the dungeon?
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Offline Draugr

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Re: Frustrating Editor Issues...
« Reply #14 on: October 09, 2015, 12:23:43 PM »
Not all are copied, but if there is some issues that might creep in, I'd be fine with wiping out all my events and retyping them if it will help insure no issues from the bug. I was kind of lucky in that I found this problem rather early on in event design for the level, so while my multiple door encounter event was quite tricky and somewhat long, I only had typed it in once, then copied it to the next room and then discovered the bug. I would have really been depressed if I didn't find the issue until I copied the event 20 or so times that I'd need it and then go in and tweak the encounter data for each room. That would have been a good amount of time lost.