Author Topic: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion  (Read 13215 times)

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2013, 04:29:50 PM »
Okay, I've got the art and I've got the maps, what else do I need? Databases are the first thing that pops to mind. I have a spreadsheet I started some time ago with the monster databases for the Savage Fronetier games, so I know that I knew how to get this info. :D But, in a spreadsheet is only slightly more useful to be honest. DC has two was that it can import databases - as a txt file or a dat file. The txt file is human readable and easily editable, so I use them the vast majority of the time for my DC use. In the bestest of all worlds, You would be able to write scripts that would take the various databases and  and export them to a text file in the DC format. :D What would be helpful for me is if  it was in a text file that would be serialized so for example we would have "Goblin", next line "10" which might AC, next line "7" which might be the HP, etc.; then repeat for the next monster and the same thing for items.
Oh and a list of the spells avaialable in the game - that is something that I don't have. Any stats would a nice bonus. :D
I've made a start on the monster problem (see the attached file). The biggest problem I've got is that I don't understand how the special abilities work in Pool of Radiance's data structures (so I can't translate them into the monsters.txt file) - if Ishad Nha or anyone else has discovered this, please chime in! Anyway, I'll investigate it. There are also some other minor problems, like spells, morale (another byte I haven't found in the Gold Box games) and automatically matching an icon file to the monster, which shouldn't be too hard.

Cleric spells available in pool of radiance are:
Level 1: "Bless", "Curse", "Cure Light Wounds", "Cause Light Wounds", "Detect Magic", "Protection From Evil",  "Protection From Good", "Resist Cold"
Level 2: "Find Traps", "Hold Person", "Resist Fire", "Silence 15' Radius", "Slow Poison", "Snake Charm", "Spritual Hammer"
Level 3: "Animate Dead", "Cure Blindness", "Cause Blindness", "Cure Disease", "Cause Disease", "Dispel Magic" ,"Prayer", "Remove Curse", "Bestow Curse"
Level 7: Restoration (found on some scrolls)

Magic User Spells:
Level 1: "Burning Hands", "Charm Person", "Detect Magic", "Enlarge", "Reduce", "Friends", "Magic Missile", "Protection From Evil", "Protection From Good", "Read Magic", "Shield", "Shocking Grasp", "Sleep"
Level 2: "Detect Invisibility", "Invisibility", "Knock", "Mirror Image", "Ray of Enfeeblement", "Stinking Cloud", "Strength"
Level 3: "Blink", "Dispel Magic", "Fireball", "Haste", "Hold Person", "Invisbility 10' Radius", "Lightning Bolt", "Protection From Evil 10' Radius", "Protection From Good 10' Radius", "Protection From Normal Missiles", "Slow"

That is an awesome start for the monster database. :D I can see that you are working from an old template, however. We have eliminated "Key" and added a couple of things - see below.
GoldBox/FRUA and DC handle special abilities (SA) very differently so don't worry about figuring out the SA itself - a list of what is affiliated with which monster/item would be all that I need. Perhaps it is similar to FRUA's list of SAs for monstes? These are pretty well documented.

Thank you for the spell list. I am very excited to see that I already have working versions for all of them. :) Though, we are using the 1e PHB versions which are hopefully not too different from PoR.

(mostly) blank mosnter record:

\(BEGIN)
name =
icon file = icon_<MonsterName>.png,0,2,48,48,0,1,2
miss sound = sound_Miss.wav
hit sound = sound_Hit.wav
move sound = sound_MonsterMoveStep.wav
death sound = sound_MonsterDeathLarge.wav
intelligence =
armor class =
movement rate =
hit dice =
treat HD as hit points = yes
hit dice bonus =
THAC0 =
magic resistance =
size =
morale =
experience point value =
Special Ability = monsterLevel,
Class = Fighter // fighter is default, can be any class from class database
Race = Monster // monster is default, can be any class from race database
form = large + none
penalty = none
immunity = none
Misc Options = none
item = none
attack =
Undead = none
\(END)

// indicates a comment

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2013, 04:42:20 PM »
Looks like you are progressing very quickly Eric. Are you going to have to set up each event individually, or do you have a way of copying them automatically?

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2013, 05:40:22 PM »
Looks like you are progressing very quickly Eric. Are you going to have to set up each event individually, or do you have a way of copying them automatically?

As far as I know, none of us have come up with a way of automatically deciphering the vents. So, I'm using the Gold Box Companion program and some advanced game saves to get all of the mapping taken care of (figuring which walls go in the slot) and then I'll create a super party and play it through to capture what I can - using the GBC and Cluebook as I go. The hard part is not going to be the events per se - it will be quests and of course worrying that I have missed events (which I am sure that I will do). :)
Since some of the NPCs images are made on the fly using a body from one resource and a head from another, I will have to get them from screencaps so that they will match with names. In theory I could create every possible combo, but that would literally be thousands of images. ;)

Offline marainein

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2013, 07:47:02 PM »
Looks like you are progressing very quickly Eric. Are you going to have to set up each event individually, or do you have a way of copying them automatically?

As far as I know, none of us have come up with a way of automatically deciphering the vents. So, I'm using the Gold Box Companion program and some advanced game saves to get all of the mapping taken care of (figuring which walls go in the slot) and then I'll create a super party and play it through to capture what I can - using the GBC and Cluebook as I go. The hard part is not going to be the events per se - it will be quests and of course worrying that I have missed events (which I am sure that I will do). :)
Since some of the NPCs images are made on the fly using a body from one resource and a head from another, I will have to get them from screencaps so that they will match with names. In theory I could create every possible combo, but that would literally be thousands of images. ;)
The ECL files contain a complete scripting language, controlling how the game works, running on a virtual machine of sorts (I presume they did this because back in the 80s they had to port games to lots of different machines - I'd be interested in knowing if any other old RPGs used this approach). I don't think it's going to be practical to port this to the event system DC and FRUA have.

What we can do is look at the ECL script and figure out make educated guesses as to what the game is doing. We can also pull out details of what graphics, monsters etc it's using (although you can do most of that simply by playing the game). I'll try and post some the ECL code used in Phlan's slums tomorrow.

Edit - I may have wandered off my point - we can get 100% of the events and quests by looking at the ecl and geo files
« Last Edit: October 27, 2013, 12:31:01 AM by marainein »

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2013, 11:41:30 PM »
The hard part is not going to be the events per se - it will be quests and of course worrying that I have missed events (which I am sure that I will do). :)

You have probably considered this, but much of the event conversion to DC format you are planning to do has been done in FRUA format by Ray Dyer:
http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/modules/g/game39.txt

Primary sources are always best, but you might save some time by using game39.dsn as a base and playing through POR checking for accuracy.
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Offline marainein

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #20 on: October 27, 2013, 03:05:34 AM »
Okay, I've got the art and I've got the maps, what else do I need? Databases are the first thing that pops to mind. I have a spreadsheet I started some time ago with the monster databases for the Savage Fronetier games, so I know that I knew how to get this info. :D But, in a spreadsheet is only slightly more useful to be honest. DC has two was that it can import databases - as a txt file or a dat file. The txt file is human readable and easily editable, so I use them the vast majority of the time for my DC use. In the bestest of all worlds, You would be able to write scripts that would take the various databases and  and export them to a text file in the DC format. :D What would be helpful for me is if  it was in a text file that would be serialized so for example we would have "Goblin", next line "10" which might AC, next line "7" which might be the HP, etc.; then repeat for the next monster and the same thing for items.
Oh and a list of the spells avaialable in the game - that is something that I don't have. Any stats would a nice bonus. :D
I've made a start on the monster problem (see the attached file). The biggest problem I've got is that I don't understand how the special abilities work in Pool of Radiance's data structures (so I can't translate them into the monsters.txt file) - if Ishad Nha or anyone else has discovered this, please chime in! Anyway, I'll investigate it. There are also some other minor problems, like spells, morale (another byte I haven't found in the Gold Box games) and automatically matching an icon file to the monster, which shouldn't be too hard.

Cleric spells available in pool of radiance are:
Level 1: "Bless", "Curse", "Cure Light Wounds", "Cause Light Wounds", "Detect Magic", "Protection From Evil",  "Protection From Good", "Resist Cold"
Level 2: "Find Traps", "Hold Person", "Resist Fire", "Silence 15' Radius", "Slow Poison", "Snake Charm", "Spritual Hammer"
Level 3: "Animate Dead", "Cure Blindness", "Cause Blindness", "Cure Disease", "Cause Disease", "Dispel Magic" ,"Prayer", "Remove Curse", "Bestow Curse"
Level 7: Restoration (found on some scrolls)

Magic User Spells:
Level 1: "Burning Hands", "Charm Person", "Detect Magic", "Enlarge", "Reduce", "Friends", "Magic Missile", "Protection From Evil", "Protection From Good", "Read Magic", "Shield", "Shocking Grasp", "Sleep"
Level 2: "Detect Invisibility", "Invisibility", "Knock", "Mirror Image", "Ray of Enfeeblement", "Stinking Cloud", "Strength"
Level 3: "Blink", "Dispel Magic", "Fireball", "Haste", "Hold Person", "Invisbility 10' Radius", "Lightning Bolt", "Protection From Evil 10' Radius", "Protection From Good 10' Radius", "Protection From Normal Missiles", "Slow"

That is an awesome start for the monster database. :D I can see that you are working from an old template, however. We have eliminated "Key" and added a couple of things - see below.
GoldBox/FRUA and DC handle special abilities (SA) very differently so don't worry about figuring out the SA itself - a list of what is affiliated with which monster/item would be all that I need. Perhaps it is similar to FRUA's list of SAs for monstes? These are pretty well documented.

Thank you for the spell list. I am very excited to see that I already have working versions for all of them. :) Though, we are using the 1e PHB versions which are hopefully not too different from PoR.

(mostly) blank mosnter record:

\(BEGIN)
name =
icon file = icon_<MonsterName>.png,0,2,48,48,0,1,2
miss sound = sound_Miss.wav
hit sound = sound_Hit.wav
move sound = sound_MonsterMoveStep.wav
death sound = sound_MonsterDeathLarge.wav
intelligence =
armor class =
movement rate =
hit dice =
treat HD as hit points = yes
hit dice bonus =
THAC0 =
magic resistance =
size =
morale =
experience point value =
Special Ability = monsterLevel,
Class = Fighter // fighter is default, can be any class from class database
Race = Monster // monster is default, can be any class from race database
form = large + none
penalty = none
immunity = none
Misc Options = none
item = none
attack =
Undead = none
\(END)

// indicates a comment
Ok, here's version 2. I found a list of special abilities in Simeon Pilgrim's remake of Curse of the Azure Bonds, but it's a bit different from Pool of Radiance, so I have a lot of special abilities which are unknown - particularly the undead powers (Gold Box trivia night fact: support for undead was removed from Curse of the Azure Bonds, possibly to save memory). The special abilities are included in comments on the Special Ability line, but a lot of them look like this:
Code: [Select]
Special Ability = monsterLevel, // unknown_vampire_only_power_charm_gaze? unknown_vampire_only_power unknown_undead_power_3? unknown_vampire_resistance? unknown_vampire_power unknown_undead_power5 unknown_undead_power4 salamander_heat_damage regen_3_hp undead_power_double_level_drain?
How does the database handle monsters with duplicate names? There are two Tyranthraxuses in the game, but only one of them shows up when I import the database.

The version of DC I have says 0.998301 - is there a more current version I ought to be using?

Offline ManuelM

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2013, 08:52:15 AM »
It's too bad I can't seem to get DC able to run properly on my PC with Windows 7. I would have love to give this module a try!

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2013, 05:04:19 PM »
Perhaps Paul or manikus can help you out with that -- try posting on the DC troubleshooting forum?

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2013, 05:33:53 PM »
The hard part is not going to be the events per se - it will be quests and of course worrying that I have missed events (which I am sure that I will do). :)

You have probably considered this, but much of the event conversion to DC format you are planning to do has been done in FRUA format by Ray Dyer:
http://frua.rosedragon.org/pc/modules/g/game39.txt

Primary sources are always best, but you might save some time by using game39.dsn as a base and playing through POR checking for accuracy.

THanks for that reminder, Nol. I had made a mental note to check that out and had forgotten about it. I will look at it when it gets closer to time for adding events.

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2013, 06:24:17 PM »
Ok, here's version 2. I found a list of special abilities in Simeon Pilgrim's remake of Curse of the Azure Bonds, but it's a bit different from Pool of Radiance, so I have a lot of special abilities which are unknown - particularly the undead powers (Gold Box trivia night fact: support for undead was removed from Curse of the Azure Bonds, possibly to save memory). The special abilities are included in comments on the Special Ability line, but a lot of them look like this:
Code: [Select]
Special Ability = monsterLevel, // unknown_vampire_only_power_charm_gaze? unknown_vampire_only_power unknown_undead_power_3? unknown_vampire_resistance? unknown_vampire_power unknown_undead_power5 unknown_undead_power4 salamander_heat_damage regen_3_hp undead_power_double_level_drain?
How does the database handle monsters with duplicate names? There are two Tyranthraxuses in the game, but only one of them shows up when I import the database.

The version of DC I have says 0.998301 - is there a more current version I ought to be using?

Thanks for doing this, it will be a big help.
That is very interesting about the special abilities. I think that I will use your notes as suggestions and look at the FRUA list and at the default DC. After all that hard work I put into writing the level draining script for undead, I will definitely use that. ;)

For multiples of the same name, we use the bar - "|" so that the designer and computer can have a goblin|1, goblin|2, goblin|wimpy and goblin|highwayman, but the player will only see goblin for each of these. This is how all 8 databases work.

Try using version .999330 for engine and .666315 for editor, available at Paul's site.
http://www.dianneandpaul.net/UAF/

The latest databases are here in the forums. There are more recent engines/editors but they are not as functional as they are in the middle of our run working out the Area of Effects for spells.

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #25 on: October 28, 2013, 06:26:35 PM »
It's too bad I can't seem to get DC able to run properly on my PC with Windows 7. I would have love to give this module a try!

I'm running DC on this laptop which is running Windows 7. Make sure it is not in your Program Files or Program Files(x86) folders. Sorry, but that is about all the help I can be without knowing more.

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #26 on: October 28, 2013, 06:35:59 PM »
I am beginning to wonder if I actually ever finished this game. lol I have no memory of an overland map at all, yet there it is. I also don't remember the Pyramid/Sorcerer's Island.

I now have 18 levels walls and backdrops set. I still need to do the outlying levels - kobolds, lizard men, nomads, etc. :) I might even have figured out what part of one of the unknown zones might do - it might be the lead into the Sorcerer's Isle levels. I need to double-check on that, though. The first hallway when entering the pyramid is not in the Sorcerer Isle levels.

Online Milos Gulan

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #27 on: October 28, 2013, 07:08:05 PM »
I am sure you will. For my design i have 4 houses, cave and a grippli :) and not sure how to continue though things doesn't look bad so i will continue to work on it without pressure.

For POR my group played it when i was away (that one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruins_of_Adventure), they all did good until they went to the graveyard when ranger as they told me didn't want to fight undead and most of the party lost few levels fighting them. It ended soon after that, and i had that module after was reading trough it and liked it. I have also read one or maybe two of these novels http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/The_Pools_trilogy

But I have not played POR game yet. Though i really wish to play something serious on DC. I have played that Hommlet module and it was nice. But i think POR might be a lot more then FRUA version, and with custom art or some more levels and additions it could be just well a lot interesting to play.

I wish i could make something good too though, but still i am making progress, if i could make smaller but good adventures i would be happy. I will have to try :)

Offline ManuelM

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2013, 05:44:51 AM »
Thanks Manikus :) I have already read the topic concerning my error. And i believe i have tried all suggestions. Unfortunately it does not start. If you want to examine it closer, i would be happy to provide more info though!

Offline manikus

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Re: PREVIEW: Pool of Radiance, Dungeon Craft Conversion
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2013, 02:22:22 PM »
Thanks Manikus :) I have already read the topic concerning my error. And i believe i have tried all suggestions. Unfortunately it does not start. If you want to examine it closer, i would be happy to provide more info though!

I've pretty much shared everythign I know about this already. ;)
But, if you want to start a thread in the Troubleshooting forum with a screenshot of the folder tree and any logs that are generated by DC, there are others, like Paul and cocoaSpud to name two, that can help you out more.