Author Topic: AD&D Second Edition Monsters  (Read 5582 times)

Offline manikus

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #15 on: September 03, 2013, 01:25:07 PM »
I'm working on the 2e monster database (per the other thread), so asked for some icons that I can use in both the 2e and 1e setting. :)
Someime late last night, I decided to re-approach that project - I'm going to structure my database around the icons you have made available. :D I'm still going to try and add the stuff that Nol and Steve suggested, and in fact have added almost everything they asked for that you have done an icon for, plus a couple of ones I have FRUA icons for, and then about 30 or 40 that I don't have icons for. I did make some of my own - mostly recolors and cut and paste jobs. I might share them with you, Uatu, to motivate you to do them properly. ;)

Offline manikus

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #16 on: September 03, 2013, 06:24:53 PM »
I forgot to mention the kind of numbers I'm talking about in the above post. 've added about a 100 so far (with special abilities completed on more than half), there are around 30 from the list that I don't have any plans to add right now, mostly because there is no art. As for Uatu's icons, there are about 65 or 70 that I need to do. :D

Offline Nol Drek

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #17 on: September 03, 2013, 09:50:54 PM »
   (and though I haven't found 2e versions yet - Blue Abishai and White Abishai)

You won't find Blue or White Abishai in 2E. The Planescape setting only had Abishai in 3 flavors: Black, Green, and Red.

There were Blue and White Abishai in 1E (Dragon Magazine #75, reprinted in MMII) and in 3E (FR Monsters of Faerun) but not in 2E.
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Offline Uatu

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #18 on: September 03, 2013, 11:35:44 PM »
Manikus, I'd love to see anything you've done - might spurt me to do something, too :D  I'd better do some more icons to keep you busy... ;)

As for abishai - I always thought it was a bit strange that they only gave a few of the 5 abishai in 2e; I think it was just a result of their Monstrous Compendium format, which takes a lot of space.  For completeness, of course there should be 5 abishai for the 5 colors of the chromatic dragons...
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Offline manikus

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2013, 01:30:15 PM »
You are completely correct, Nol. But, I am going to make a 2e version of the blue and white. :D Actually, I already have. But, I also want the icons for the 1e version of the databases. As I've been writing special abilities for these 2e monsters, I've discovered that quite a few will now work in 1e too. I don't think I'll add any to the default monster database, but I will make them available as soon as I get a group of them done.

Also, I still plan on doing the underwater pack...I just need to decide if it will be 1e, 2e or a version of each. So, Uatu if you have any more underwater appriopriate art - not just icons - I would love to include it. When it gets closer to the time, I will start a thread for it and ask for help on figuring out any rule changes needed, specifically to spells.

Offline Uatu

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2013, 08:20:54 PM »
I do like underwater icons/art, so maybe I will come up with some more soon (or just find them on my HDD)...  :)
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Offline Nol Drek

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2013, 08:25:22 PM »
As for abishai - I always thought it was a bit strange that they only gave a few of the 5 abishai in 2e; I think it was just a result of their Monstrous Compendium format, which takes a lot of space.  For completeness, of course there should be 5 abishai for the 5 colors of the chromatic dragons...

I think the Abishai were confusing in 1E. Chromatic Dragons, in order of hit dice, are: White, Black, Green, Blue, and Red but the 1E Abishai, in order of hit dice, are: Red, Blue, Green, White, and Black.

For 2E and Planescape, they eliminated the Blue and White to make things less confusing. 2E Abishai are, in order of hit die: Black, Green, Red. Yes! They are in alphabetical order! And the most powerful is the Red, just like with Dragons!

Next, in 3E, Abishai become FR-specific monsters (take that Gygax!) who are ranked in the same order as Dragons are: White, Black, Green, Blue, Red and the Abishai-Dragon connection is created (White=Cold, Blue=Lightning, Red=Fire, etc).
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Offline Uatu

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2013, 01:58:22 AM »
Well - I thought it was interesting that they had the abishai in a sort of reverse order to dragons themselves - although the order was a bit strange.
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Offline manikus

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2013, 01:58:11 PM »
Very interesting stuff to think about. Perhaps I will cut the  blue and white from the 2e (likely) and just have them in 1e. now as for 3e...well I'm not even going to think about that in relation to DC until I have a bunch of other stuff. done. :D

I've been thinking a lot about icon sizes lately because of the bug that Paul, nologgie and I are working on, and also because a lot ot hings got bigger in 2e. I've decided to not worry about it so much for anything bigger than 3 in either direction as the icons are not very exact anyway. I'm at the point where I'm thinking of icons as metaphors. :D

Offline Uatu

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2013, 10:29:03 PM »
One problem with the 2e sizes (remember, I used to make icons for this size) is that everyone is so big!  DC I think has some awkwardness when the icons are huge - such as icons not being able to move around, etc.  So, I think that the 1e sizes worked best in the end...
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Offline manikus

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2013, 02:51:16 PM »
Well the movement issue is all about the the combat map - if you try to put Cthulhu in a 3x3 room, well he won't fit. ;) If you give them the room they need, they move just fine.

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #26 on: September 08, 2013, 07:13:28 PM »
It is not only walls; small combatants can also prevent the movement of large combatants because there is not enough room to squeeze between. But again, that is just an obvious effect of being very large.

Offline Uatu

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #27 on: September 08, 2013, 11:59:52 PM »
True - for my blue whale icon, I think I will have to prepare a large space for it to move properly within - but it would be nice if an outdoor combat space would work for the blue dragon as well (maybe allow huge monsters to just ignore blocks?).
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Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #28 on: September 09, 2013, 02:11:37 AM »
That sounds like a good idea.

Offline manikus

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Re: AD&D Second Edition Monsters
« Reply #29 on: September 09, 2013, 01:42:43 PM »
True - for my blue whale icon, I think I will have to prepare a large space for it to move properly within - but it would be nice if an outdoor combat space would work for the blue dragon as well (maybe allow huge monsters to just ignore blocks?).

A trick that I've seen used, and will use myself as the need arises is the ol' "teleport to another level for the combat and then teleport back as soon as it's done" trick. This other place could be wide open, or have an "over-size" room or whatever you want.
Also to remember is that you can set the size fo the combat map up to 100x100 cells - I believe the default is 50x50 cells.

At this point, in combat dungeons there are two types of cells - passable and blocked and they are determined by the 3D view layout.
There is also no way to make part of an icon so that t passes over a blocked area. Well, there might actually be a way to get around this, but I'm not ready to share it, and it would be something that would have to be carfully planned and would be one of those kinds of work-arounds that makes Paul cringe. But this is definitely not something that will happen before version 1.0.
After version 1.0, though while not the top of my list, near the top of things that are FRUA-like and therefore broken because the FRUA does not work well for DC, are changing the way dungeon and wilderness combats can be set up. I am envisioning two choices - 1) let the engine set combat walls like it does now, 2) Have an editor akin to the overland level, where a picture of a certain measurement is used and then the designer places the passable and blocked squares (passable being in several flavors, and blocked being in several flavors), and then designer can also pick the "seed" square where the combatant placement will start, following the scripted rules like we use now. A this point I will also list here my "dream"  options of placing "destroyable" items and/or "neutral" combatants - that don't effect combat ending. :D :D :D I'm sure this will be a big deal for coding, but there are other Open Source programs, nearly as old as DC and using Visual Basic that do this quite well, so this should be a cinch for the crack post-1.0 development team. ;)

 

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