Poll

Which 1e player class, not already in DC, would you most like to see added?

Illusionist
Thief-Acrobat
Barbarian
Monk
Bard
Cavalier
Assassin

Author Topic: New Player Class  (Read 4825 times)

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #30 on: March 28, 2013, 03:20:40 AM »
That would be nice to have :D

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #31 on: March 28, 2013, 04:31:10 AM »
Yes, I envisage, in the Training Hall event, a list of all baseclasses with a field next to each to enter the maximum level for that baseclass.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #32 on: March 28, 2013, 09:53:19 AM »
Quote from: steve_mcdee
list of all baseclasses with a field next to each

That becomes a problem now that there
can be an infinite number of baseclasses.

It must be doe a bit differently.....the
Training Hall event cannot even know
what baseclasses might exist in the
future.  A designer might add baseclasses
after adding a Training Hall event.

The Training Hall editor could list the baseclasses
with which it is familiar.  Any that are added
after that could be assumed to have a value
of zero.

This would not be hard to do.  But it becomes
rather complicated and time-consuming.
--Additional dialog with open-ended list
--Worry about 'unlisted' baseclasses
--Modification to binary data files
--Modification to import/export
--Backward compatibility issues
--Engine modifications to enforce limits
--Probably an added Hook for scripts

And there is currently only one of me.

Offline Paul R. Stevens

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #33 on: March 28, 2013, 10:16:31 AM »
Oh, yes.....I forgot about one of the other
threads.

What are we to do when the limits are
based on race?  Do we need a two-dimensional
limits table?

And what about those Training
Halls where the Master Trainer only works
on Fridays?  The Novice Trainer can
get you to level 7 but the Master Trainer
can get you to 9.

And what about those limits based on
Charisma?  Do we need a 3-dimensional
training limits table?  Strength, 4? Wisdom, 5?

And what about those limits based on time?
After gaining a level you must wait another
month before training again?

And what about those limits based on your
companions?  Elves are not allowed to gain
a level greater than that of another party
member.  Perhaps an n-dimensional table
could handle this.

We could implement all of these things in
the editor and one day later someone would
want something else.  That is why I want to
provide these things via scripts.  So, when
someone wants limits based on moon phases,
I can tell them where to go.  (Where to go to
get it done, I mean.)  Features that are absolutely
necessary seem to become a bit less important
when I can tell the requester how to do it himself.

Offline SilentThief

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2013, 10:30:37 AM »
...I can tell them where to go...

LOL! I hope all our "I want"-s, mine included (cuz I'm just as guilty); never make you
decide to quit. Scripted level advancement would cure the issue at hand as well as prevent other issues that a training hall event might have like keeping a solo character mod from suddenly gaining 5 more PCs.

ST
P.S. can't we set char level already? I mean, if I remember correctly the script exists. I believe it won't work right unless the experience is high enough, but I think it might work already. I could even test it to see...
« Last Edit: March 28, 2013, 10:46:06 AM by SilentThief »

Offline Milos Gulan

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2013, 11:41:54 AM »
Thats cool :) I like trainers that are not usual and maybe have a quest or two for party :)

Offline manikus

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2013, 01:46:50 PM »
Wow, I thought we were getting out of hand there for a second. ;)

First, Training Halls will never be concerned with baseclass levels, instead it is concerned with classes. Why is this? Players don't get to pick the baseclass(es) of a character they create or use, just the class.

We already can limit baseclass level in the baseclass database. We do this with Druids which are now capped at 14. So, all we really need is a way to write a script that looks at race.

I'm completely with Paul about why these should be scripted instead of in the editor. But, I also understand that scripting is daunting if you haven't done it before. So, let us, in a different thread, start a discussion of which of these kind of things people want and we can start building a library of them for designer use. Tom has already created a couple of nice tutorials on using GPDL triggers, and he and I (and anyone else who wants to help out) can make similar ones for using the scripts as well.
This one will be a bit tricky, since the event should occur and it should just be that some characters cannot train...fortunately Paul has already given us a Hook for use with Training Hall events.

Offline nologgie

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2013, 03:00:19 PM »
P.S. can't we set char level already? I mean, if I remember correctly the script exists. I believe it won't work right unless the experience is high enough, but I think it might work already. I could even test it to see...

To limit advancement to a given level for all characters of a given baseclass all you have to do is lop off the big end of the of the advancement table.

We have functions to $GET and $SET 'ready to train', and to $GET and $SET the experience point total for each baseclass. 

I can set a character's 'ready to train' to 0 in a training hall GPDL trigger to prevent them from training in a hall that can't accommodate their level.  The name color changes from blue to green when they're in the training hall, and back to blue as soon as they leave.  A multiclass with one class that should be allowed to train and another that shouldn't is a problem.

Leveling up without a training hall is easier, but most of the expected functions are missing.

Modifying the "Train Character" button to chain to other events before training occurs might work.  In FRUA it is always present and if the character lacks experience, funds, or is of a class not supported, it displays text explaining why training isn't allowed.  Chaining text statements with event triggers would be easy.  Running them in conjunction with a Training Hall event might not be.  (Re-run the Training Hall event after the Text Statement?)

I played with the 'Training Character' hook, but it didn't really match what I was trying to accomplish in this case.

I haven't figured the whole method out, and I have to get some sleep before night shift, but it seems promising at this point.  I may change my opinion when I'm rested and think it through again.
Some days it just doesn't pay to gnaw through the straps.

Offline steve_mcdee

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2013, 04:37:07 PM »
You make some good points, Paul. I understand what you are saying and why scripting is the better way to do this. Does the same problem with selecting classes arise already with the tick boxes for "what classes may train", now that classes are customizable?

It sounds like Tom's script based on fixing the "ready to train" status immediately before and after entering the training hall would work adequately for my purposes. In practice, does that mean a logic block event on either side of the training hall event?

Eric, I thought levels related only to baseclasses, not classes, so that is why I thought we would be checking against baseclass.

Offline noctoskanan

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #39 on: March 28, 2013, 04:58:22 PM »
Quote
And there is currently only one of me.

what you havn't learned to clone your self yet? tisk tisk.

i suppose since your so busy trying to perfect this great game i'll work on that one for you.

Offline manikus

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #40 on: March 28, 2013, 05:05:53 PM »
You make some good points, Paul. I understand what you are saying and why scripting is the better way to do this. Does the same problem with selecting classes arise already with the tick boxes for "what classes may train", now that classes are customizable?

It sounds like Tom's script based on fixing the "ready to train" status immediately before and after entering the training hall would work adequately for my purposes. In practice, does that mean a logic block event on either side of the training hall event?

Eric, I thought levels related only to baseclasses, not classes, so that is why I thought we would be checking against baseclass.
(answers in order of questions)
It will as soon as we get that far. :) I will make a mini-mod showing each Event that still refers to the hardcoded classes.

Tom's idea works with a script and doesn't require any Logic Block events.

Unless Paul wants to change it, I think it will remain class instead of baseclass because that will be less work. Another reason that it might be a good idea to keep it the way that it is is that you may want to allow thieves (for example), but not multi-classed thieves.

Offline KTG

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2013, 08:29:05 AM »
I voted Illusionist, tho what I'd really like to see is all or most of the specialist mages done 2E style.  Illusionist, Invoker, Transmuter, Enchanter, etc.  Give extra spells for the specialist school of magic and restrict spell selection according to how it was done in 2E.  Even if done 1E, Illusionist could at least make Gnomes more relevant.
A close 2nd for me would be the 1E bard, followed by monk.

Offline SkeleTony

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #42 on: November 04, 2014, 01:22:57 AM »
Illusionists for sure!  :D  Then players will finally have a reason to play gnome characters...  ;)

After illusionists, I would go for bards, monks, and assassins.  (Never really liked the barbarian or cavalier classes - rather unbalanced, I think.  (As if all barbarians were as buff as Conan was...))


CONAN was not as buff as Conan was! To be more clear the character from the books written by Robert E. Howard was not a bodybuilder like Schwarzenegger.

My problem with the Barbarians of AD&D was that 'Barbarian' is a RACE, not a class. A cultural sub-type of humans who can and are of MANY classes. Shamans, Rangers, Fighters, Thieves (Conan was a Fighter/Thief in AD&D terms).

Yes I was the one guy who voted for Thief-Acrobat. The idea of a cat-burglar specialist type of thief as a class in AD&D still sounds more interesting than most classes IMO.

Offline Dorateen

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #43 on: November 04, 2014, 10:09:01 AM »
This poll reminds me of the Dungeons & Dragons animated series.

I see thief and acrobat as separate classes, and you even have barbarian and cavalier!
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Offline SkeleTony

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Re: New Player Class
« Reply #44 on: November 04, 2014, 10:44:26 AM »
This poll reminds me of the Dungeons & Dragons animated series.

I see thief and acrobat as separate classes, and you even have barbarian and cavalier!

"Acrobat" by itself is just an entertainer occupation, not an adventuring one. The 'Thief-Acrobat' should be thought of as a "Cat Burglar" and therefore a single class. It is a thief who specializes in getting into, robbing and then escaping residences that are at least two stories up. Fantasy fiction is rife with these archetypes (just as it is with 'Rangers', 'Barbarian Warriors', 'Wizards' etc.) whereas acrobats...not so much (save for stories where some performing acrobat ends up in a situation where s/he must put his/her skills to use on an adventure).