Author Topic: Shops in DC  (Read 3550 times)

Offline Olivier Leroux

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2010, 06:01:03 AM »
None should be afraid of logic blocks... :)

BTW, is there a tutorial yet that explains how logic blocks work, what functions they have and how you could put them to use? For my contest entry manikus' tutorial helped me a lot to implement the secret door but that was only one function of the Logic Block Event...

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2010, 11:24:36 AM »
Maybe my tutorial to Friedrich's Quest may be of some additional help:
http://one.xthost.info/Dinonykos/Tutorial_Rotating_Cage.pdf

I deduced most of what I learned about GPDL scripts and Logic Blocks from the DC helpfile...
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Offline manikus

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2010, 03:35:32 PM »
None should be afraid of logic blocks... :)

BTW, is there a tutorial yet that explains how logic blocks work, what functions they have and how you could put them to use? For my contest entry manikus' tutorial helped me a lot to implement the secret door but that was only one function of the Logic Block Event...

There are a couple of more that I've done:
http://dungeoncraft.skybakcone.com/?page_id=16
Look in the "Advanced" column. :)
It is very hard to do a turorial that covers the Logic Block...there is just too much that you can do. :) The help sectrion is pretty decent in explaining this though. Here's a link to the online version of thehelp documents:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/mediawiki/uaf/index.php?title=Contents#Logic_Block

Offline manikus

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2010, 03:41:58 PM »
And Dinonykos, while the Logic Block event will most assuredly work for waht you describe, you could also just use the Who Tries event (a lot less scary to most of us) and accomplish the same thing. :D
None should be afraid of logic blocks... :)
Well, for the basic characteristics like charisma or strength, the Who Tries event is probably the easier option. I must admit though, that I have not totally understood how the "compare to ...-dice" thing is handled, and how the attributes like "pick pockets" work.

You are right, Dinonykos, many similar situations would require the Logic Block, but this is so fundamental to AD&D that  charisma is built-in to be checked. :)
So, to compare to a dice, you put in the number you want to achieve on the roll (I forget whether it's a d20 or d100) and if that number or higher is achieved, success.

Something that the Logic Block would allow that the Who Tries would not is a system of skills - using ASLs or quests (until we add skill and traits to the list of designer editable info) the designer can give the party or a member of the party a skill called "haggling". They can assign a number to 'haggling' and let it be modified however they want, lower it or raise it with experience, anything. Logic Block would then check 'haggling'. :)
When th enext release comes out, the designer will be able to just assign a Special Ability to someone called "haggling". :D

Offline SilentThief

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2010, 05:53:08 PM »
Something that the Logic Block would allow that the Who Tries would not is a system of skills - using ASLs or quests (until we add skill and traits to the list of designer editable info) the designer can give the party or a member of the party a skill called "haggling". They can assign a number to 'haggling' and let it be modified however they want, lower it or raise it with experience, anything. Logic Block would then check 'haggling'. :)
When th enext release comes out, the designer will be able to just assign a Special Ability to someone called "haggling". :D

Alright, this means we are yet another step towards the idea of proficiencies!!!! We already had the ability to impose penalties (or bonuses) to attack based upon weapon proficiency, now we can have the non-weapon proficiencies possible, too.

Imagine it: instead of assuming you just "know" something, you set up your fighter with something like Animal Lore, Blind Fighting (minimize penalty of blind or sub-par light fighting conditions), and even weaponsmithing. Now, its not that hard to imagine using text events to simulate some of the abilities of the non-weapon proficiencies; but having the ability to define "new" skills is a major selling point for the new version.

And, if you dodn't think so, recognize that this would lead to psionics being done almost the exact same way ;)

ST
ps, if yer interested, heres a list of proficiencies:
http://members.tripod.com/lord_eadric/profs.html

Offline nologgie

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2010, 11:42:38 AM »
I like the idea of proficiencies, and understand they can be incorporated into a game. Can they also be incorporated into a character's save file?
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Offline manikus

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #21 on: March 22, 2010, 03:39:12 PM »
Hey ST, all of the "proficiency" stuff can be done right now. :) You just need to figure out the exact scripts for use with Logic Block (LB) events. You could have a series of LB events at the beginning of a design that allow a player to choose some proficiencies for her PCs...and then use LBs through out the game to check and modify the proficiencies given out. I like using ASLs, but quests would work nicely as well, and since DC allows millions of quests, you can have a lot of proficiencies if you want.
My point in the post above was that the the new Special Ability system will allow one to do the same thing without ASLs or quests, but there will still be scripting involved.

As for saving proficiencies to PC saved files...I believe DC saves them to the saved game file (if the designer wants it to). There are several types of ASLs, one of which is a temporary type which goes away at the end of the session, but the other types last the game. Quests of course, last the rest of the game, at least until taken away.

Offline nologgie

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #22 on: March 22, 2010, 09:46:09 PM »
As for saving proficiencies to PC saved files...I believe DC saves them to the saved game file (if the designer wants it to). There are several types of ASLs, one of which is a temporary type which goes away at the end of the session, but the other types last the game. Quests of course, last the rest of the game, at least until taken away.

Good, I think. If they can be saved to the saved game file, they can probably be transferred to the next game in a series by transferring the save file. FRUA can't do this, but DC should be able to with a bit of work.
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Offline manikus

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2010, 04:02:32 PM »
As for saving proficiencies to PC saved files...I believe DC saves them to the saved game file (if the designer wants it to). There are several types of ASLs, one of which is a temporary type which goes away at the end of the session, but the other types last the game. Quests of course, last the rest of the game, at least until taken away.

Good, I think. If they can be saved to the saved game file, they can probably be transferred to the next game in a series by transferring the save file. FRUA can't do this, but DC should be able to with a bit of work.

Hmmm, I don't think that DC can do this. You can save the PCs at the end of the game and if the databases are the same* and the global data is the same (art/sound doesn't count) you can use the same PCs.
This would be a nice feature to have, wouldn't it? It would be like the GoldBox games then. I guess we would have to provide some way for the designer to specify which design to look in for the saved games...
If you saved the PCs at the end of the game, some of the data may be saved (there are character ASLS, for example).

I'll add this to the list. :)

* You can do this without the databases being the same, but items in the characters possession, spells, etc (whichever db is changed) will be messed, and in some cases won't be able to be fixed; as this can cause conflicts with the global data and options become 'invisible', so that weird things like your characters all suddenly iron rations instead of plate mail and the wizard for some reason has a cursed broad sword readied, that he of course can't use, but can't let go of to use anything else... ;)

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2010, 04:31:56 PM »
* You can do this without the databases being the same, but items in the characters possession, spells, etc (whichever db is changed) will be messed, and in some cases won't be able to be fixed; as this can cause conflicts with the global data and options become 'invisible', so that weird things like your characters all suddenly iron rations instead of plate mail and the wizard for some reason has a cursed broad sword readied, that he of course can't use, but can't let go of to use anything else... ;)
Let's say you make a sequel and want to allow the player to import a party, you can solve the problem at least for items by copying the item.txt file and only add new items below the others which have been used in the prequel. I am however not sure what happens if you add new items in the editor...
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Offline manikus

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #25 on: March 23, 2010, 04:49:03 PM »
* You can do this without the databases being the same, but items in the characters possession, spells, etc (whichever db is changed) will be messed, and in some cases won't be able to be fixed; as this can cause conflicts with the global data and options become 'invisible', so that weird things like your characters all suddenly iron rations instead of plate mail and the wizard for some reason has a cursed broad sword readied, that he of course can't use, but can't let go of to use anything else... ;)
Let's say you make a sequel and want to allow the player to import a party, you can solve the problem at least for items by copying the item.txt file and only add new items below the others which have been used in the prequel. I am however not sure what happens if you add new items in the editor...

My experience is from doing it both ways. If you add even one item, DC changes (in versoin .914 at least) the index of all the items. Same with spells.

I actually suspect this may not be as big of a deal in the newer version of DC...I'll have to check on it. Paul has reworked the databases and the way they play wiht each other and the global info.

Offline nologgie

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2010, 04:53:26 PM »
* You can do this without the databases being the same, but items in the characters possession, spells, etc (whichever db is changed) will be messed, and in some cases won't be able to be fixed; as this can cause conflicts with the global data and options become 'invisible', so that weird things like your characters all suddenly iron rations instead of plate mail and the wizard for some reason has a cursed broad sword readied, that he of course can't use, but can't let go of to use anything else... ;)
Let's say you make a sequel and want to allow the player to import a party, you can solve the problem at least for items by copying the item.txt file and only add new items below the others which have been used in the prequel. I am however not sure what happens if you add new items in the editor...

I was thinking more in terms of things such as a "haggling ability" score, or results of previous actions. (If you fought and saved the small town, it's there. Otherwise, there is only a large spot of scorched earth and scattered stones.)

Would it be possible to generate a status string in the form of an item to attach to a character? Ideally, one that could be generated by a "transfer out" event, then read and removed by a "transfer in' event in the next module.

I think this would be needed to track and manage skills, psionics, etc., at least in the case of campaign-type designs. As there are currently no campaign-type design series AFAIK, it isn't a pressing issue.
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Offline manikus

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #27 on: March 24, 2010, 03:21:00 PM »
I think you could do everything you suggest doing, Nologgie, with quests, but that is stored in the saved game and not the saved characters... There is a feature request up for opening of saved designs from other adventrues.

I haven't tried it, but honestly don't see why if the global data and the databases are the same, why you couldn't just manually copy over a saved game...I may be missing some key concept here, but someone might give it a shot. Oh wait, I just realized that the location would totlally be fubarred - a clever designer could work-around this though, with transfer module events attached tot he utility events that end a game, plus this would ensure that someone had to finish the first adventure in order to be able to bring a saved party into the new adventure from the old.

Offline Dinonykos

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #28 on: March 24, 2010, 04:42:27 PM »
Oh wait, I just realized that the location would totlally be fubarred - a clever designer could work-around this though, with transfer module events attached tot he utility events that end a game, plus this would ensure that someone had to finish the first adventure in order to be able to bring a saved party into the new adventure from the old.
It may be my English, but I cannot follow you this time, Manikus. How can a transfer module be attached to an utility event?
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Offline manikus

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Re: Shops in DC
« Reply #29 on: March 24, 2010, 04:45:55 PM »
Oh wait, I just realized that the location would totlally be fubarred - a clever designer could work-around this though, with transfer module events attached tot he utility events that end a game, plus this would ensure that someone had to finish the first adventure in order to be able to bring a saved party into the new adventure from the old.
It may be my English, but I cannot follow you this time, Manikus. How can a transfer module be attached to an utility event?
...with special DC masking tape...

I meant chained together - something like a text event telling the player that the game is about to end, a transfer module event to the 'special' location, a camp event so the player can save and then the utility event to end the game. :)